As fellow Juice blogger Vern has taken a very proactive stance opposing Prop 8, as another member of the Juice Team I am posting this opposing view supported by a short video clip that illustrates what can happen to our children or grandchildren in the public school system unless we prevail with a YES vote on Nov 4th.
The video is an actual story, not an imaginary tale, of a 5 year old kindergarten student whose teacher sent him home with a diversity book bag including a book entitled “whose in a family book.” Introducing students to diversity without parental notification nor providing the ability to “opt out,” is what actually happened to the Parker family. It is the responsibility of parents to educate their impressionable children, not the public school assuming that parental responsibility. Click here to see the video.
If Massachusetts can overstep their role and without parental knowledge or consent, the same can happen in our public schools.
While gays have the right to their private lives, they do not have the right to redefine marriage for the rest of us.
Furthermore, before you ask if I know anyone who is gay, the answer is yes. Bloggers whom I have met in Santa Ana that are known to those who closely follow other Orange County blogs.
Unlike Prop 1 A and it’s 15 pages of supplemental text, this Proposition is very easy to read. This will be a Constitutional Amendment that:
“provides that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.”
To repeat: vote YES on Proposition 8
Fear. Fear. Fear. Typical Reep trick. I hope people don’t honestly believe this crap. Let’s not give everyone the same rights because of what COULD happen?
What is to be taught in schools is irrelevant. The fact is that gays and lesbians already cohabitate, it’s a fact of life, and schools are hopefully already teaching that, as they should. It’s no more appropriate for teachers to filter facts than it would be to change the curriculum to suit the LGBT community. If teachers can’t do that without interjecting their personal beliefs, well then why do we even have public schools at all? They are not for indoctrination into the culture war.
As far as churches, Larry you know damn well nobody’s losing their tax exemption over Prop 8. It’s a lie. Plain and simple. It makes me sad to see you fall for it.
SMS
>While gays have the right to their private lives, they do not have
>the right to redefine marriage for the rest of us.
Why, thank you, Larry. How very generous of you to recognize the Constitutional right to privacy. And let’s be very clear: no one is trying to “redefine” your marriage, no one is calling for a vote on whether you are allowed to marry, and no one is trying to nullify your marriage. My marriage has absolutely no impact on your marriage, so let’s just toss that particular red herring back into the sea, hmmmm?
No one is going to try to force you as an individual to “accept” marriage equality… although I expect that I and others will continue to try to convince you. 🙂 The question that was asked of the Supreme Court was “Is it permissible, under the California Constitution, to deny a marriage license to any (adult, competent) couple?” If you wade through the 172 pages of the decision (http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2008-05/38894545.PDF) you can see that the Court carefully considered Prop 22; they didn’t ignore it.
With regard to the alleged impact of Prop 8 on our schools, did you read Vern’s post on this topic? “WE LIVE IN CALIFORNIA. Here, the California Education Code, local school districts, and INVOLVED PARENTS determine what students should and shouldn’t learn about marriage – REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT PROP. 8 PASSES AND WE TAKE AWAY SAME-SEX COUPLES’ RIGHT TO MARRY.” And I thought this, from the case that was “discussed” in your video, was very interesting: “Parents do have a fundamental right to raise their children. They are not required to abandon that responsibility to the state. The Parkers and Wirthlins may send their children to a private school that does not seek to foster understandings of homosexuality or same-sex marriage that conflict with their religious beliefs. They may also educate their children at home. In addition, the plaintiffs may attempt to persuade others to join them in electing a Lexington School Committee that will implement a curriculum that is more compatible with their beliefs. However, the Parkers and Wirthlins have chosen to send their children to the Lexington public schools with its current curriculum. The Constitution does not permit them to prescribe what those children will be taught. ” (Parker v. Hurley, 474 F. Supp. 2d 261 (D. Mass. 2007), quoted at http://www.conservapedia.com/Parker_v._Hurley). The decision went on to say, with regard to Massachusetts’s Constitution, “it also does not prohibit the defendants from voluntarily accommodating the parents’ concerns if there is a reasonable way to do so.” I have to say that if I had been treated the way Mr. Parker reports he was treated, I would have been furious, and rightly so. Beligerant, confrontational, obstinant behavior is completely out of place in parent/teacher conferences, on either side of the table. (and BTW… California *does* have parental notification requirements.)
Larry,
Come out. It’s okay.
Thank you, Paul. I’m no longer sure Larry listens to anybody, he just likes to get these talking points out from GOP central. I’ve already debunked, in advance, everything he can ever say in defense of this proposition. And I would think that the way this bizarre character Phobius takes Larry’s and Rosie Avila’s arguments to their logical extremes would start to embarrass them. Pero no…
By the way, this is where you can go to get your No on 8 signs etc.
http://www.noonprop8store.com/eshop/10Browse.asp
Get ’em quick though! Election’s in 19 days!!
Why does the government need to define marriage at all? That’s not its place. And it’s not your place to determine what other people do in their private lives.
Larry,
When do you get fitted for you white robe and hood?
BIGOTRY is the only excuse for supporting this unfair measure. You can hide behind whatever cloak of religious and child protection you want but, the fact is Prop 8 dicriminates against one particular group.
THAT IS AN INDISPUTABLE FACT
Sometimes bigotry is a virtue.
Whatever you say, freak. “Sometimes murder is a virtue,” opines Charles Manson.
Why is it so tough to recognize a need for everyone to have equal rights? This shouldn’t be a religious argument, it should be civil. If you substitute the word gay for any ethnic group, it isn’t even debatable. The very same arguments were raised early on in the civil rights movement.
I am a total civil rights activist, not just the 2nd Amendment. While I know this really pisses of some of my friends, too bad, I don’t feel I can pick and choose or allow others to do so either.
It’s not even about liking things necessarily, it’s about what’s truly right. You want a secular society then you have to make it so. You want your rights protected, then it’s incumbent on all of us to at least make the attempt to protect others rights as well. If you want to live in a religious based society then you better be ready to be ruled by someone else’s religious beliefs. Just as in the current political battles, there are always winners and losers, and they are not always going to be the same side that wins. It’s all about living with the swinging pendulum. That is exactly what freedom means, the freedom to choose how to be happy and not by your or my standards. We all know someone who has a spouse we wouldn’t even think of living with, but we certainly wouldn’t even think of making it illegal for them to marry, much less procreate.
What kind of world do you want? One that denies civil rights for someone who disagrees with your ideals of sexual normalcy? That’s not the world I wish to live in. I don’t care what particular family arangements you make or who you choose to live your life with, as long as both parties are of legally consenting age and they both agree with it freely, let them live as they wish. Let them have equal protection under the law. If you think the society we live in is a strong one, then it can and will learn to deal with it, so should all of us.
Liberty is about giving those rights you want to others, it’s about mutual respect. Not necessarily agreeing, but respecting others rights. It’s about time we learn that lesson as a society or we will all lose those rights we cherish. Like it or not that’s the truth.
It also points out that in many ways the present school system and the classroom have become indoctrination centers for all kinds of political and social issues. They should not be, but they are. It’s up to every parent to teach their children to think for themselves and make up their own minds. Since critical thinking is not a normal part of curriculums’ in the normal K-12 school system it’s up to us to teach that. As a parent of a teenage daughter, it’s incumbent on us as parents to instill our beliefs and what’s important to us, to our child, it’s called parenting. I know it’s an old fashion idea, but she needs to learn the skills required to live in the world as it is, not how we want it to be. It’s also my belief that she needs to learn to think outside the herd mentality that’s taught now, and make up her own mind in a respectful, thoughtful and logical manner.
Larry, on this one we disagree.
I also have to say, as Paul said, if any teacher or administrator had treated me, as has been stated by Mr. Parker, I would have been in orbit, I don’t care what the issue was being discussed. Mr. Parker had every right to be upset.
I’m starting to see why Larry’s been pretty quiet about this proposition, after suggesting back in June that he would be something of a spokesman for it. You sure aren’t getting a lot of agreement around here, Juice Brother. Maybe you should quietly rethink this thing, if you’re capable of that.
CO – “If you substitute the word gay for any ethnic group, it isn’t even debatable.”
Why would you do that CO? That is like comparing apples and oranges. There is no comparison, they are separate and different issues.
It is very much like that, anonymous. People are born gay just as they are born black, white or Asian. Or have you not caught up with 20th-century science in the 21st?
Yes, but they can marry ONE person of the opposite sex. That’s not the same as “converting” to heterosexual, which I will admit is more difficult.
Voltaire is alleged to have said “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” I find myself much in agreement with that position; Fred Phelps has every right to stand on the street corner and scream that I’m going to Hell because I’m gay, and I have the same right to stand on the corner opposite and call him a hate-mongering moron… or to dispute him book, chapter and verse.
What Fred –or his surrogates in the legislature, or the electorate– do not have the right to do is pass laws that force their religious beliefs on the citizenry. The Bible may teach that eating bacon is abominable, but it is unamerican to pass laws that, because of the Scripture, criminalize our pork purchases. lt is unamerican to require that men be circumcised because the Bible requires it. Our laws don’t require that all our goods be given to the poor, even though the Bible says they should be. Nor do we criminalize the worship of Baal, or force citizens to pray five times a day, or fast during Ramadan.
So if Larry is willing to try explaining why nullifying my marriage is a good thing, and why excluding thousands of Californians from equality before the law is consistent with America’s history of expanding civil rights, I’m willing to listen. And argue.
The Bible also forbids robbery and murder. I suppose we have to legalize them now, because outlawing them is an imposition of religious morality.
My Christian faith allows me to eat bacon. It does not require me to eat bacon. So outlawing bacon would not offend my religious freedom.
Thanks Vern, you beat me to it.
Additionally I will add that the same arguments have been raised in the past with regard to allowing interracial marriages and further the inclusion of minorities into society as equals, not separate. Even if you don’t like it, if you look back at history you will find that there are in fact parallels in the arguments that segregationist made prior to desegregation. Remember there were laws that forbad the interracial marriages and other forms of social interaction. There was and is the inherent fear of the unknown, the uncomfortable. Like it or not this very subject is being discussed on TV right now on shows like Grey’s Anatomy. It is becoming a very real part of our social fabric.
Vern and company. Having read your multiple posts and comments in opposition to Prop 8, there is no need for me to engage with those who have already made up their minds. I don’t expect you to vote in favor of Prop 8.
And Vern. I have been speaking on behalf of this ballot measure. The best use of my time, with all the other tasks on my plate, including time spent to write multiple stories on this blog, is to devote as much time as possible with undecided voters which may be similar to the 2008 presidential election.
Sorry for the delay in responding to all of my posts. We are experiencing a softward problem between our systme and the Juice blog that is impacting my ability to provide quick responses to you the readers. For that I apologize.
CO – I disagree, they are differnet issues.
How so, anonymous? How are they differnt?
Larry, I don’t know why you’re not more concerned about the truthfulness of what you put out – whether here on the blog, or out with the “undecided voters” when your friends aren’t around to correct you. I mean some things are just factual and some things just aren’t. For example, this Massachusetts case, tearjerking as it may be, has nothing to do with same-sex marriage being legal or illegal in California. It is simply dishonest for you to pretend it does. Show a conscience, Juice Brother!
I finally got to a real computer to check out the video. It’s DISGUSTING!
The mother talks about teaching her children about ‘gay-marriage’ when she decides. Umm, that would be, survey says… NEVER! Instead she goes on camera, appalled at the idea that her son learned that *gasp* some of his classmates may have two moms or two dads – a fact she can’t change. Nice job tying to insulate your children in a fantasy world lady! Is that the same fantasy world that allows you to justify your bigoted, narrow, x-tian conservative worldview that you’re so desperate to impose on everyone else? So you don’t want children after all; you want clones. Let’s talk about the moral and religious implications of that!
Actually, let’s talk about the difference between moral and legal. Well, frankly there should be no laws passed in this country passed on strictly ‘moral’ grounds. First of all, morality is subjective, and secondly, you can’t legislate it. See: the drug war.
In fact, last time I checked, it was not immoral by x-tian standards for two men or two women to raise a child, sans sexual activity of course. Unless the children have already had sex ed, they have no clue about what goes on in their same-sex parents’ bedroom because they don’t have even a basic understanding of heterosexuality and reproduction.
And gee, how many more times could they have said ‘sex?’ It seemed like every other word. The schools are not teaching Kindergartners sex-ed, so what’s the problem? Look people, for the last time, GAY PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO STOP HAVING SEX AND THERE’S NOTHING YOU CAN ABOUT IT. Trying to legislate behavior by marginalizing families is just sick, and again, Larry, you should know better.
SMS
PS: So much for ours being a ‘free country.’ You know, I don’t think I’ve heard anyone use that expression since Sept 10, 2001. Interesting.
All of our laws are on moral grounds, except for the crony capitalist regulations and tax favors.,
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again conservative commenter’s don’t even bother posting here anymore. It’s not that they don’t back Larry its that, they LIKE their a**holes and are tired of being ripped a new one.
Talk about HATE thats what this whole blog seems to have turned into lately not the articles (although some are) mostly its comments that fly like sh*t in the wind. Its all about the intolerance of anyone else’s beliefs. Sometimes lately its reminded me of that disturbing Liberal OC. Which if you read it at all now its just the bloggers posting comments to each other kinda sad.
I look forward to being ripped new one any second now for posting the truth mind you. If you don’t like it don’t read it blah blah blah blah blah. I still find some of the articles informative and some just amusing its the comments that are unreal alot of the time.
Oh guess I should have added its not necessarily the comments on this particular article which don’t seem all that bad. Its just in general why several people I know don’t comment much.
Oh, two more things.
First, I added the video directly because you just have to see it to believe it. Holding up bigotry and closed-mindedness as virtues: nice job soldiers of Christ. I bet their kids go to bed with Veggie Tales movies and Bible stories. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather live next to Homer Simpson than Ned Flanders. And secondly, Massachusetts is a very progressive state, so how did they find this tiny little red spot in that giant see of blue? My money’s on a church recruitment drive.
SMS
Well, sometimes bigotry and closed mindedness are virtues.
“Conservative” Anon…
Its all about the intolerance of anyone else’s beliefs.
I’m not going to try and rip you a new one because I can see that you are sincere and distressed, but have you ever heard of the pot and the kettle, anon? There is intolereance, and then there is intolerance of intolerance. Nobody here is trying to pass a law forbidding Conservatives or Christians from marrying, are they? You all can SAY whatever you want, but once you try to pass laws taking away rights from certain groups of people, expect a HUGE BACKLASH here!
Sometimes lately its reminded me of that disturbing Liberal OC. Which if you read it at all now its just the bloggers posting comments to each other kinda sad.
LOL, you’ve got that right. Although I would call it not so much “disturbing” as “boring and predictable.” And you’re welcome any time to add to the variety of input here!
I look forward to being ripped new one any second now for posting the truth mind you. If you don’t like it don’t read it blah blah blah blah blah.
I would NEVER say “If you don’t like it don’t read it.” If you didn’t read it and comment, how could we possibly rip you a new one? Seriously, vote no on 8. It might make you uncomfortable that God created many of us gay, but it is anti-American to take away people’s “liberty and pursuit of happiness” because of your feeling.
thanks for the post (yes on prop 8). i’m surprised by the amount intolerance jumping out of these comments. geeze.
for more discussion (for anyone who reads this blog and is actually interested in considering other viewpoints):
http://prop8discussion.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/marriage-and-culture-2/
i’m surprised by the amount intolerance jumping out of these comments. geeze.
You guys are hilarious. I can see now that that is an official talking point: Folks who take exception to intolerance are INTOLERANT. Wank on, bro.
Vern –
‘You guys are hilarious. I can see now that that is an official talking point: Folks who take exception to intolerance are INTOLERANT. Wank on, bro.‘
Seriously? You really just figured this out now?
SMS
Juice sister you jumped the gun while I was still inserting my way-cool image!
‘Help! Help! I’m being repressed (bloody peasant!)… ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system!’
SMS
I know Vern and Sarah will just laugh at me, but it’s true – there is a frightening amount of intolerance coming from the pro-gay agenda side.
Why just last night I was at my favorite watering hole, wearing a couple of LARGE Yes on 8 pins – because, despite my pseudonym, I am FEARLESS in my beliefs – and the other guys at the bar were just ignoring me like I didn’t exist. Or, to be more precise, they would glance over quickly at me, roll their eyes, and cover their mouths while making snide remarks – which I could HEAR! One of them said “Homophobic a**hole” with a big sibilant hiss, and another cracked, “When is he just gonna get it over with and come out?” at which they all laughed like little girls. And a little while later the bartender came over and said “The other customers would like you to leave!” Well, I wasn’t going to spend one more minute in a place where I’m not appreciated, and by then I was fuming mad and in the mood to visit my SECOND favorite watering hole. So I snapped “Good day sir!” went to the door, turned around and said “See you all in hell!” and stormed out.
Then what do you know, I go down the street to my other hangout, where it turns out my favorite band is playing, and the big hunky bouncer in leather, the minute he sees my Yes on 8 pins, lifts me up physically and throws me out into the lot, yelling “Don’t come back here, you weirdo!”
*gasp* I still can’t get over it, the next morning. He was an ANIMAL! Damn gay lobby. I’ll show them yet…
I’m gonna run to Home Depot. Does anyone else need a pitch fork or torch? We gotta get those gays! Git’r Dooooooone!
SMS
HA HA! Newsflash: The Yes on 8 bigots just sent this to Phobius’ e-mail address (Don’t ask me how I get Phobius’ e-mails. Please.)
Dear Friend,
With the polls showing Prop 8 moving into the lead, our opponents have sounded the alarm and are seeing millions pour in. What’s more, they’ve taken a 9-to-1 lead in fundraising in just the last week.
But don’t just take my word for it. The San Jose Mercury News reports:
“Equality California, the lead organization for the No on 8 campaign, has raised more than $3 million within California since Oct. 6, including a $1 million contribution Tuesday from the California Teachers Association..
“Since Oct. 6, large contributions to ProtectMarriage.com, the lead group supporting Proposition 8, have totaled just $405,969.
“The No on 8 campaign has also received commitments for an additional $4 million in donations that have not been received, said Kate Kendell, a member of the campaign’s executive committee.”
Over $3 million vs. $405,969 — with an extra $4 million on the way.
Because of your generosity, the Yes on 8 campaign enjoyed a fundraising advantage that allowed us to communicate more effectively with voters. Our advertising and other voter communications was a key reason we were able to flip the polls and take a slight lead in this race. But now our fundraising advantage has been eliminated and soon we will be behind our opponents by millions of dollars. We can’t risk them stopping our momentum because they have out-raised us in the past few days. Too much is at stake.
We’ve never had a need more urgent than this one. Will you help us meet this challenge from opponents of traditional marriage head on by making an emergency contribution of $50, $99, or $250 today?
Our TV ads telling the truth about Prop 8 have turned this race around. But the reality is that we will be outgunned without your support. Already, we are receiving reports of the No on 8 campaign increasing their advertising buys in key media markets. The threat is real.
In addition to a $1 million check from the California Teachers Association, the No campaign announced today that Hollywood film producer Steve Bing will personally match up to $1 million in donations to No on 8.
With 19 days to go, the race is too close for you to stay on the sidelines. Our opponents are mobilizing like never before because they know that traditional marriage is on the line.
The question is… will we make sure the fight is joined? Please make sure your voice is heard, and that we are not outgunned in this fight of a lifetime.
Thank you,
Steve Linder
Finance Director
ProtectMarriage.com – Yes on 8
P.S. Unfortunately, these recent announcements of million dollar contributions to opponents of traditional marriage are unlikely to be the last. Our opponents know that Hollywood, liberal activists, and labor unions have not yet given all that they can to their campaign, and they will stop at nothing to defeat Prop 8. This is why we must be vigilant, and leave nothing on the field in this fight.
“Leave nothing on the field,” huh? It sounds to me like they’re leaving the field somewhat soiled.
Time to empty your pockets, sell your cars, mortgage your houses, Larry, Lee, Anon, Jubal y esposa! Western Civilization is at stake – what will you tell your grandkids if you leave something on the field??
We won, didn’t we?
Not for long.
Overmyer is spot on.
I rarely get worked up to the point where I can’t deliver my arguement with precision and lack of emotion.
This is one of those instances, I’m a hetrosexual Father of three, Irish Catholic guy.
I can’t for the life of me see how any American can support this measure. It is cleary discrimanatory.
Failing that, I can offer this:
TAX THE CHURCH!
Phobius,
U R sexxxxyyyyyyy!!!!!
This election season has got to suck big time for all the bigots and hold-outs for blanket discrimination against minorities. A woman, an old guy, a black guy and all those gays…..no wonder “some” folks have their noses all pushed out of joint.
Everywhere you look, things are all changed and scary!
Larry, leave the gays alone. They just want their civil rights in tact. Like you. Like me. Like Art, Sarah, Vern and Carl……..
Larry,
You are in excellent company, btw. Michele “McCarthy” Bachmann, is in complete agreement. Here are some of HER comments that you will no doubt appreciate and enjoy:
http://dumpbachmann.blogspot.com/2005/06/effect-of-gay-marriage-on-education.html
This new legal enforcement of a new status – homosexuality, lesbianism, bringing it into the mainstream, if you will, giving it a legitimacy if you will, that will impact not only the gay community, but every man, woman and child, particularly the schools. Because the first thing that will occur, once the legalization occurs, is that if this curriculum is not being taught already, it will be mandated, it must be taught in the schools. You cannot get out of it. Why? If you would not teach this, it would be considered discriminatory.
—————————-
WHY IS IT SO DANGEROUS?
It leads to the personal enslavement of individuals. Because if you’re involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it’s bondage. Personal bondage, personal despair, and personal enslavement. And that’s why this is so dangerous.
————————–
Commenting on gay strategies and lamenting the good old days of television when gays could be ridiculed.
(Gay activists want to) make gays look good, because they (media) didn’t always. If you’ll recall television maybe 15, 20 years ago, if you’d see something about gays it would be an outlandish kind of an outfit, it would be a kind of tittering, making fun. But that’s different now. Now gays are made to look good.
Vern –
I am very concerned friend. I do not think you even read the entirety of comments before you reply. I stated clearly in the post directly below the first which hello I already know that you know I posted both
“Oh guess I should have added its not necessarily the comments on this particular article which don’t seem all that bad. Its just in general why several people I know don’t comment much.”
I never stated once in either of my comments how I feel about prop 8, did I. Actually as far as I can remember I have never once on this blog posted anything with relation to how I personally feel about prop 8. Yet you insinuate and assume that I did?
I don’t care personally if someone is gay or straight, it does not affect my life in any way shape or form.
“have you ever heard of the pot and the kettle, anon? There is intolereance, and then there is intolerance of intolerance.”
Seriously really are you freakin kidding me, oh Vern you make me laugh more than most. Vern you could argue with a rock I’m very sure of this haha.
Oh that was you, “Yeah OK”, posting “anon”? I sure don’t have time to check the IPs of every anon comment I respond to, or even approve. But I still don’t see what difference it makes. My response fits your comment perfectly.
You really don’t see the difference between “intolerance of homosexuality” and “INTOLERANCE OF INTOLERANCE of homosexuality?” And even the latter is copping to too much on our part. If we were INTOLERANT of your (friends’) views, we wouldn’t be soliciting them here and approving & posting them here, and then doing our best to debunk the hell out of them. We’d be trying to pass laws against them, like your friends are trying to do against gay marriage with this bill.
Why so coy anyway little girl? I’d like to hear you’re the bold dissenter in the shop sticking up for equal rights! Voted yet?
Coexist.
SMS
“You really don’t see the difference between “intolerance of homosexuality” and “INTOLERANCE OF INTOLERANCE of homosexuality?” And even the latter is copping to too much on our part. If we were INTOLERANT of your (friends’) views, we wouldn’t be soliciting them here and approving & posting them here, and then doing our best to debunk the hell out of them. We’d be trying to pass laws against them, like your friends are trying to do against gay marriage with this bill.”
MAYBE IF I RESPOND IN ALL CAPS VERN YOU WILL GET IT MY ARGUMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ARTICLE OR HOMOSEXUALITY OR PROP 8. ITS ABOUT THIS BLOG IN GENERAL. I COULD REALLY GIVE A FLY F*CK LESS HOW PEOPLE CHOOSE TO LEAD THEIR LIVES ITS THEIR LIVES. MY FRIENDS NOT POSTING HERE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 8 YOU MISS THE FREAKING POINT COMPLETELY (OR ON PURPOSE) YET I’M NOT SURPRISED YOU GOTTA BE THE SPIN DOCTOR RIGHT. KEEP THE ARGUMENT GOING AT ANY COST. THEY DON’T POST HERE BECAUSE OF WELL EXACTLY WHAT I POSTED ABOVE AND YOU TRIED YOUR DAMNEDEST TO MISCONSTRUE.
Why so coy anyway little girl? I’d like to hear you’re the bold dissenter in the shop sticking up for equal rights! Voted yet?
I HAVE NOT VOTED YET I VOTE ON ELECTION DAY. YOU MAY HAVE 20 YEARS ON ME VERN (OR SHOULD I SAY OLD MAN) BUT I’M NO LITTLE GIRL. I DON’T NEED TO SPOUT OF IRRELEVANT BULLSHIT TO MAKE A POINT. I AM VOTING AND HOW I AM VOTING IS OF NO CONCERN TO YOU REALLY. WHAT SHOP ARE YOU SPEAKING OF? WHY IS IT THAT YOU ALWAYS TRY TO GIVE SOME COY CLUE AWAY AS TO OUR IDENTITIES. YES I POST AS ANON AND YEAH OK BUT YOU KNOW THIS BECAUSE YOU ASKED RIGHT?
oh and let me add I’m not sensitive, or overly sensitive Vern buddy I’m just annoyed. This is just a blog after all.
Okay, okay, YOUNG WOMAN. You were NOT referring to Prop 8 on this Prop 8 thread. And I thought “bold dissenter in the shop” was a very subtle thing that nobody else would notice, I was just trying to picture you, don’t make a big deal about it. (You got so upset you called yourself “Yeak OK.”
I’m waiting till Election Day too. Keep changing my mind on some of these initiatives, there are so many moving parts in them! But so far I think I’m for 2. 5. and 11.
“introducing students to diversity without notifying parents”
You’re against diversity??
I’m still researching some of the props I like to be as informed as possible. We agree on 11. I’m worried about 2 though although my mind is not made up yet.
Prop 2 is another step forward in giving animals equal rights to humans* It will close a great many of our egg farms and ranches that provide food for the state. That’s the truth of it. If you want free range, then buy it, but don’t force those who can’t afford the extra costs to pay it too.
( *I know that sounds stupid but that’s where theese folks want to go.)
The same folks now are putting this (Prop 2) forward, HSUS had statements on their website prior to Katrina that they were also against companion animals, that’s pets to you and me. HSUS has been taken over by the PETA crowd.
When Katrina hit they realized they could make a small fortune on donations. I had friends who spent time and their own money to go down there and gather up pets that had lost homes. They did a great job of it. HOWEVER when they solicited for funds and told their friends to also donate to HSUS I noted the web pages to them. They freaked out when they saw what they were saying. They even protested to HSUS and disassociated themselves from HSUS. Right afterward HSUS took down the links, then the pages themselves. HOWEVER the policies at HSUS have not changed, nor have their internal directors. They have just attempted to stay out of the public eye.
Don’t be fooled by the TV commercials. NO on 2
Yeah ok/Anon, well said. Thanks for contributing. Larry, thanks for not writing to me. Vote NO on 8! This was a great thread!
How is it that the proposition is to blame for public schools teaching childeren about Gay Marriage? Is it possible that before the proposition they were already being taught? Does it say anywhere that if this proposition doesn’t pass, teachers are admitted to teach Gay Marriage in schools? Just a few questions I’d like to get cleared up…
oh and please email me @
haha sorry my email i forgot to write it, alisyamora@gmail.com
With November 4th around the corner, we’ve been bombarded with an overwhelming number of campaign ads. While they are annoying, I feel the need to follow in their footsteps and speak up so that you can make a more educated decision when you head to the polls.
I am gay and have been with my wife for 8 years. We made personal life commitments to each other in 2007 and then committed to each other legally in 2008 after same-sex marriage was granted by the California Supreme Court.
I think it’s overly dramatic to claim that Proposition 8, which denies same-sex marriage in California, promotes or supports hate towards homosexuals. I really believe that most who are against same-sex marriage simply don’t understand it.
The supporters of Prop 8 use the saying that they’re trying to “Protect Marriage.” It’s not about taking rights away, they affirm, but protecting their own rights. I promise you, we don’t want to take anything away from straight couples who have found love.
My devotion to my wife doesn’t take anything away from the commitment you’ve made to your significant other. It would not weaken or cheapen what you have. Instead, denying same-sex marriage or allocating us a “civil union” cheapens our commitment.
If your beliefs on homosexuality are shaped by the Bible, it should still not influence your vote. I could make arguments about the Bible and how it’s been edited or other “rules” it includes that people are not passionate about. But bottom line, the freedom of religion allows you to believe in the Bible. If you choose to do so, I respect that.
But for America to be what it is, and for YOU to continue to have the freedom to worship who you choose and to believe the written words of the Bible, there has to be liberty. There has to be the allowance of people to be who they are and then expectations to respect each other and their differences. The separation of church and state requires that religious beliefs not be the basis for decisions when it comes to how I live my life as an American. Denying me the ability to marry whom I choose is a violation of my civil rights and it legalizes discrimination.
While it is about legal rights, tax filing, and medical decisions, it’s really about love. Marriage is the ultimate expression of a person’s love for another. Some may use the argument that the institution of marriage has been cheapened by the divorce rate and the “Marry a Millionaire” shows, but I respect and believe in it. I honor the commitment that I made to my wife.
This past week in the San Francisco Chronicle, a 29 year old woman by the name of Myrna Elias was quoted as saying, “A lot of friends had a hard time coming out to their parents and others, and I’m sympathetic to what they went through. But I can still love those persons and still be for Prop 8.”
If you vote yes on Prop 8, you are supporting an idea that ignores my core identity and declaring that my commitment to my wife is deficient. You may not be promoting hate, but I cannot see how you can claim to love me.
I ask you to please respect me and my liberties as an American and vote NO on Proposition 8. I appreciate you taking the time to read this. If you’re interested in discussing the topic further, please feel free to contact me and I would love to do so.
Your commitment to your “wife” is morally deficient.
I think what upsets me is that every civilization and religion in the world agreed on this, till 30 years ago. The arrogance that says “every religion, culture, and civilization through the broad sweep of history has been wrong, and we are right,” is a far greater sin than sodomy as such,
the father never says why he is so scared to have his son learn there are different kinds of families. WHY??? Because he is afraid his son will choose that lifestyle. It’s back to square one. Teach that it is immoral so it won’t happen to you. This is the whole problem in a nut shell. Is everyone going to be gay if they find out about in childhood? Are all these hetero’s teetering on the brink of homosexuality? Be afraid, very afraid
oh, and am I supposed to be horrified that this man went to jail?? Poor baby, (if that did happen at all), in 1967, I was caught necking with my girlfriend in Golden Gate Park, and the cop said “it’s a good thing I didn’t ACTUALLY see you two, or I’d haul your ass in. Then he kept her license, and tried to set up a date with her for her to get it back! Get a taste of what we lived and live buddy.