I can always tell we are entering flu season because we are bombarded with flu vaccine commercials. Actors posing as healthcare professionals reminding us that we can stop in our local drugstore and within minutes be protected by this seasons flu. But wait…not so fast. How do these “experts” know exactly which flu strain they are protecting us from? Since 2009, the H1N1 vaccine has been in all the vaccines. Remember when the media was alerting the public that H1N1 virus could turn into a major pandemic? The Pharmaceutical company rolled out that vaccine pretty quick and convinced our so-called representatives to give them immunity to any lawsuits that may arise from serious side effects. How convenient is that? Let’s see….make a pandemic vaccine that hasn’t been tested longterm and make sure that no matter what, they don’t get sued. That sounds like some good lobbying to me.
There was a recent story in the news that a healthcare provider threatened to fire employees that refused to get a flu shot. Wait. What? What happened to a person’s right to privacy, especially when it comes to their body? Forced vaccinations? This can’t be legal or can it? It seems that those of us who live in states with “at will” employment can be fired for almost any reason and refusing to get a flu shot can be one of them. It really isn’t forced because the employee has the option to work somewhere else. There are some exceptions though like religious reasons, or allergies to eggs, but what if that person just doesn’t want one?
California Senator Lois Wolk (D-Davis) introduced SB 1318, requiring all hospitals and clinics in California beginning in 2015 to adopt a mandatory vaccination policy for any facility that fails to achieve a 90 percent vaccination rate or better. It will be voted on November 20th.
Ok, I get it…healthcare professionals are around sick people all day long and the last thing these patients need is some sick nurse coughing all over them, but how effective is the flu shot really? How do vaccine makers know which strain will be the one to make us sick? Germs mutate all the time, and remember the swine flu scare (all those poor piggies were slaughtered because some health Czar thought they would destroy mankind) And don’t forget the “Bird Flu”. There were endless media reports of people getting sick. But seriously…a pandemic? Hardly. A money maker for the Pharmaceutical companies? Probably. Lets be honest here, Big Pharma spends millions every year lobbying our Representatives and they are very good at Fear Mongering.
I decided to do some digging to see if I could find out who is really behind this mandatory flu vaccine idea, in other words…”follow the money”. First, I wanted to find out how many people died last year in the United States from influenza and according to the Center for Disease Control (CDC)…they don’t know. Huh? Isn’t it their job to know? Well, it seems it isn’ that simple. This is their official statement on their website:
” First, states are not required to report individual seasonal flu cases or deaths of people older than 18 years of age to CDC. Second, seasonal influenza is infrequently listed on death certificates of people who die from flu-related complications. Third, many seasonal flu-related deaths occur one or two weeks after a person’s initial infection, either because the person may develop a secondary bacterial co-infection (such as bacterial pneumonia) or because seasonal influenza can aggravate an existing chronic illness (such as congestive heart failure or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease). Also, most people who die from seasonal flu-related complications are not tested for flu, or they seek medical care later in their illness when seasonal influenza can no longer be detected from respiratory samples.”
So the CDC only gives estimates and not yearly ones because the flu is unpredictable. Some years there are more deaths and some years alot less, depending on the strain. They came up with their estimate by monitoring weekly influenza virus information, to estimate how many flu-related deaths occurred among people whose underlying cause of death was listed as respiratory or circulatory disease on their death certificate. Then they took an average over a 23 year period and came up with 36,000 a year. That sounds a bit high to me.
So who decides what flu strain will be the big one? Who sits on the Flu Vaccine Committee? The World Health Organization (WHO) decides what vaccines get approved and once again there seems to be a conflict of interest between big business and our government. The former CDC Director, Julie Gerberding is now President of Merck. Gerberding left a trail of controversy behind her when she left the CDC. An article written in 2009 named her as part of a “misinformation” campaign about the looming H1N1 flu pandemic and the urgent need to get everyone vaccinated, even though it was untested.
In 2010 Professor Ulrich Keil, director of WHO’s Collaborating Centre for Epidemiology testified at The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. He claimed that the swine flu pandemic was part of an overblown “angst campaign”, created by major drug companies to boost profits.
Nurses in Virginia recently won an arbitration decision against Virginia Mason Medical Center (VMMC) requiring mandatory flu vaccinations. The arbitrator’s decision found that the employer violated the terms of the collective bargaining agreement by implementing this policy.
A recent study done by The Cochrane Collaboration, a group of internationally recognised volunteers known for giving high quality information about the effectiveness of health care, found that Influenza vaccines produce no benefit and may actually cause serious harm. The report included 40 clinical trial studies of more than 70,000 people. Four percent who weren’t vaccinated got the flu. One percent of vaccinated people got it. That’s a difference of only 3 percent. The authors stated that the only ones showing any benefit were also industry-funded. So if the only ones who think vaccines are great are the ones who make them then why is there legislation in the works to make healthcare employees get flu vaccinations? Sounds very 1984 to me!
I have never received a flu shot and have no intention of getting one…ever. I don’t work in the healthcare industry but whose to say this mandatory vaccination won’t catch on to include any jobs that have public contact? We have a healthcare mandate that could open the doors to future mandates that concern public health. This last election got enough votes to require those who work in the porn industry within Los Angeles county to wear condoms. Do people really think only those who work in the sex industry are at a higher risk of getting AIDS than the general public? That’s pretty naive.
I believe strongly in the right to privacy and the right to decide for myself what I injest in my body, not what someone in Sacramento or Washington D.C. thinks is best for me, especially when big business is helping them write the rules.
Influenza is one of the most persistent and deadliest viruses ever recorded in human history.
Don’t be stupid. Get the shot.
Hahaha I’m laughing at all the idiots that get the shot and cry to me how sick they are but oh no it wasn’t the shot though, couldn’t be that! My Grand father is 88 never had a shot never gets sick. I take a product called Beyond Tangy Tangerine it’s a powder you drink, so you don’t have to shoot up like a junkie and scientifically proven to build immunity and kill cancer cells, and nothing but great side effects and a boost in health I can see in the mirror. Bet obama care won’t cover that though! Bet your flu shots and vaccines don’t cover any of that either. Even with all these sick morons spreading germs all around me for weeks I did not catch what ever they have, but yeah I’ll get right on that placebo poison! Plus lets not forget the top researchers in disease all believe the world is over populated and say all over the t.v. they are solving the problem with vaccines? Hmmmm! Just type polo vaccine paralyses 10,000 in india in your search engine bet they were told it was 100% safe and approved too! Also why does the CDC have a back fund for damages caused by their products if the problems are uncommon?
I seem to have a bad cold, one apparently caused by bacteria (as others who have had it have improved with antibiotics.) So far as I can tell, it’s not the flu.
You need a dose of the stinking rose…raw garlic. I’ve used for years with great results. You can literally feel better in about 5 minutes.
Two cloves chopped, chase with water, and the oil in the garlic kills bacteria. NSFW, but that garlic breath is because the oil comes out of the blood in the lungs and sinuses, killing what ails you. 4 x a day.
http://home.howstuffworks.com/garlic10.htm
http://www.food.com/recipe/devils-smoothie-cure-for-the-common-cold-404876
Zinc – Zinc supplements may be helpful in preventing viral infections if taken daily during the Fall/Winter months and also in decreasing the course and severity of a cold if taken within 24 hours of symptom onset. Stick to tablets or lozenges as the nasal spray can cause permanent damage to your sense of smell!
Probiotics – The “good” bacteria found in yogurt has been touted as a cure-all for digestive problems of all kinds (you’ve seen all those Activia commercials, right?) and the research has also shown promising results in the prevention of other infectious ailments. Taking a probiotic supplement or eating yogurt is not only yummy, but may help keep your respiratory system healthy.
http://www.antioxidants-for-health-and-longevity.com/health-benefits-of-ginger.html
http://www.holisticsquid.com/common-cold-remedies-that-really-work/
Greg, above are some sites that have ideas to treat the common cold. I believe the best way to treat a cold or flu is prevention and that means a strong immune system. Are you eating fruits and veggies on a daily basis??? French fries and chips do not count. How about drinking a green smoothie everyday? Check out my facebook page The Health Goddess and Like it…I post all sorts of great info on how to stay healthy.
I have good eating tips and green smoothie recipes on my blog as well…
http://www.rectalcancermyass.blogspot.com
As you know I do not get flu shots. I do not need one. I am healthy and I don’t even have a sniffle. Why??? Because I keep my immune system running smoothly. Also washing our hands is extremely important. People do not wash their hands enough, if at all. The next time you go out to eat at a restaurant…see how many customers actually wash their hands before they eat. I will tell you how many. Zero.
Hope you feel better.
Zinc’s good for us middle-aged boyz prostates too.
How hard do I have to rub it in?
I’m feeling much better. I needed guanifenesin (or whatever it’s called, the expectorant.) That keeps it out of my lungs, and so long as that happens I get over it just fine.
You know, someone has to die of the flu to remind us all of the dangers of life.
And am glad that INGE has volunteered.
You guys are comedians and apparently believe the Pharma hype. You certainly can get your shot but I will be damned if anyone tries to bully me into getting one! I guess you believe that these vaccine companies have a crystal ball that tells them which flu will hit and I guess you forgot all the hoopla about swine flu and asian flu.
No, I believe that scientists can make a legitimate hypothesis of the three flu strains most likely to impact the continental US in a given year.
Inge, you have a very poor understanding of what your right to privacy really is. Your understanding of vaccinations and influenza is just ignorant. Your understanding of statistics, unfortunately, is just as sad.
Get the shot, don’t be stupid; or move to a remote island where your poor decisions and inconsistent expectations for privacy will do no one any harm.
Also, open a goddamn book and read about Spanish Flu. Maybe you’ll have a stronger appreciation for H1N1 then.
Before you pick on our Inge too much….you might in fact want to know what the military, fire and police get in this country for protection. Try Plague, Tetnus and in fact for Poison Gas…..but they don’t get Flu Shots unless of course..they want them.
Smallpox, Mumps, Measles (3-day you can get several times) and Pollo are dicernable and without a doubt important for child hood protection….except that they have mixed a cocktail of too many together which can cause ADHD and worse……
Too rely on Medical Professionals is important….but you better be prepared to do your own investigation, know what you are taking, know what it is designed to protect you from and to understand any serious side-effects. When was the last time you took a flu shot and looked at the possible side effects. Each person comes from a different heredity and has a different history. One size fits all for blankets and baseball caps…..not medicine bucko!
I conceded the inappropriate nature of my reply further down in the post.
I read the side effects last month when I got my shot.
Also, troops get a flu shot. Thanks for that.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/l/blvaccinations.htm
VACCINATIONS DO NOT CAUSE ADHD OR AUTISM.
*Being that you are not a Pediatric Specialist…….we would have to defer to further study on the issue.
Flu Shots in the Military are contingent upon Theatre – however. All vaccinations have been under review for the past five years. There have been many members of the military that have refused certain vaccinations for a variety of scientific reasons. Some have indeed even separated from the services involved, other have been given Article 15 Reprimands and Penalties.
The point is: The Science and the effects have mixed reviews. Nothing is totally safe….even aspirin……but some people have a way of giving folks a headache – without giving or taking it.
Ryan, what sort of evidence do you bring to the discussion that says that the flu shot is effective.
Please read the following:
” In January 2012, Michael Osterholm, an epidemiologist at the University of Minnesota’s Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, and his colleagues published a meta-analysis in The Lancet Infectious Diseases that analyzed the results of all randomized controlled clinical trials conducted between 1967 and 2011 on the effects of flu shots. It found that there have been no clinical trials evaluating the effects of the traditional flu vaccine in the elderly. The only vaccine shown to protect against infection or death in older adults, it said, is the live-attenuated vaccine—an inhalable vaccine that contains a live, modified version of the virus—which is not approved in the U.S. for adults over age 50.
The dearth of controlled research on seniors stems in part from the fact that the U.S government considers such clinical trials unethical. Based on an idea known as clinical equipoise, scientists can’t test, in a randomized controlled trial, a treatment that the larger medical community already considers to be effective, because doing so would involve denying treatment to half of the participants, potentially putting them at risk.
A 2010 Cochrane review, also co-authored by Jefferson, estimated that during “good” vaccine years—when the vaccines match the circulating viral strain well, which Jefferson says happens about half the time—the vaccine reduces the relative risk that an adult under 65 will catch the flu by about 75 percent. In absolute terms, however, this means adults have about a four percent chance of catching the flu if they don’t get the vaccine and about a one percent chance if they do. Shay notes that while this estimate is reasonable, some flu seasons are worse than others, so the risk may be higher than 4 percent in some years (and some people) and lower than 4 percent in others. (And of course, the vaccine won’t protect against the nearly 200 viruses that cause flu-like symptoms but aren’t actually the flu.)”
Do you have some research that refutes this that is not published by Big Pharma or the CDC ?
Do you know that the third leading cause of death in the US is iatrogenics ?
“The doctor is to be feared more than the disease.”—-Latin proverb
Maybe it’s time that you read a different goddamn book.
D– you’re asking for something pretty specific. Would it really matter or have you already made up your mind?
Be honest.
Well Ryan, when you come out all hot and heavy like you did, I assume that it is you, that have already made up their mind.
I’m always open to substantiated arguments, and was wondering if you had any science behind your attacks on Inge’s well researched and thoughtful post. By the way, Ebola and HIV are way more deadly than the flu. And of you want to discuss “persistent viruses”, that is a huge subject all by itself.
I think that Inge might be right in responding that she felt like she hit a nerve with you. Kinda like you lost someone to the flu.
If Inge doesn’t want someone telling her that she HAS to get a flu shot, shouldn’t that be her choice? My wife is an RN for more than 30 years, and she won’t get one. Do you think that should be fired because of that choice?
Yes, I have absolutely made up my mind. I asked because I don’t want to go digging for the very specific data you asked for. If it’s not going to make a difference, why look? Fair, no?
And no, AIDS and ebola are not nearly as deadly as the flu. They have higher mortality rates, but influenza has killed millions more. In some specific cases, the flu actually has a higher mortality rate as well as rate of infection.
I wrote a short post on the potential slippery slope of government interfering in health care choices a few months ago. I certainly do empathize with personal choice in medicine. It’s a conversation that deserves thoughtful argument.
On this issue, I’m too biased to provide that type of balance. I don’t believe an individual has the right, particularly based on privacy concerns, to subject society, particularly the most vulnerable members of it, to a deadly disease.
If the CDC and the ANA required a RN to get a flu shot (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/02/next-government-mandate-flu-shots.html) I would absolutely support the transfer of any nurse who refused to receive one. In the very unlikely event that a suitable position in a non-critical area were not available, I would support termination of the nurse.
I just wondered if you had anything to back up your assertions. That’s why I asked.
I do have issue with your saying that the flu is more deadly than AIDS and Ebola.
The definition of deadly : likely to cause or capable of producing death . Aids and Ebola are more likely to cause death than the flu is. That’s why you would rather have the flu than Ebola. It’s less deadly.
What is your opinion on iatrogenics….”death by medicine.” Don’t you think that people should have the choice to opt out of unproven protocols, like the flu shot? I don’t think that there are reliable studies that prove the efficacy of flu shots. Maybe the live-attenuated vaccine, but not the drugstore variety flu shot.
If you take care of yourself, and don’t treat your body like a rental car, your natural defenses will fight off the flu. I can’t remember the last time that I got the flu, maybe 15 years. I prefer not to get the flu shot the same way that I don’t get dental X-rays. I haven’t had a cavity ever, more than 50 years. Why subject myself to unnecessary radiation?
If they want to keep health care workers from infecting patients, then they should send them home if they are sick, with a cold or the flu. Management won’t do that.
That’s exactly why this is a hot button issue for me.
Getting the flu and dying from it has absolutely nothing to do with taking care of yourself.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2219925/Austin-Booth-Healthy-Colorado-teen-athlete-catches-flu-dies-DAYS.html
You’re welcome to define deadly however you’d like. I think body count, sadly, is a pretty darn good measure.
That kid died from MRSA, which is more deadly than the flu.
Poor example.
What a convenient read, D. That’s not exactly what it says, and you completely missed the other 99% of the article which addresses your concern about treating one’s body like a rental car.
I have a feeling you’d take issue with any statistic or story posted, which is fine . . . so long as you’re willing to admit you’re as entrenched in your opinion as I am.
Here’s my last shot at it, but I have a feeling you’ll * shockingly* find some flaw with the data: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/skipping-kids-flu-shots-prove-deadly/story?id=14527663#.UKuoS-RlF5s
Children who get vaccinated are 400% less likely to die from the flu than kids who do not get a flu shot.
Don’t be stupid. Get the shot.
You crack me up….”Don’t be stupid. Get the shot.”
If somebody doesn’t agree with your interpretation of an article or an issue, then they’re stupid?
When people on this blog start calling names, it usually means they have lost their argument, and have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation.
It’s not all as black and white as you might think:
“American Thoracic Society (2009, May 20). Children Who Get Flu Vaccine Have Three Times Risk Of Hospitalization For Flu, Study Suggests.”
So the science on this issue is conflicting at best, but relying on CDC studies who are one in the same as big pharma, isn’t very objective. They’re the ones selling the flu shots.
You made one other statement….”Children who get vaccinated are 400% less likely to die from the flu than kids who do not get a flu shot.” I’ve never seen that statistic before. Where did you get that from?
I still have an open mind on this issue.
No, just this issue. I think I’ve been pretty clear in acknowledging my bias and I acknowledged my one incident of name calling on this thread, which wasn’t appropriate. To be clear, I’m not calling you stupid. I’m stating that not getting the shot is stupid behavior, which is a very fair assessment considering that not getting the shot may get you killed. It’s right up there with not wearing your seat belt or a motorcycle helmet.
I think that needlessly subjecting yourself, your loved ones, and society in general to a health risk is pretty damn stupid.
The information supporting the statistic is in the link that I posted:
Among the 115 children who died of flu-related causes last year, less than a quarter of them had received the flu vaccine, according to a new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. While childhood deaths from the flu are extremely rare, experts said the flu vaccine could have likely saved the lives of these children.
Great, so you don’t want a CDC study and you’re open minded about it? Tell me exactly what you’re willing to look at.
“I’m stating that not getting the shot is stupid behavior, which is a very fair assessment considering that not getting the shot may get you killed. It’s right up there with not wearing your seat belt or a motorcycle helmet.”
This statement of yours is an opinion, not a statement of fact. There are many scientists that completely disagree with your “statement.” They think that since the flu shot covers at most 3-4 different strains of the flu, out of 200 plus, that it does little good.
People also die from getting the flu shot, and although that evidence is merely anecdotal, so are all of the studies that you have referenced.
Good science requires a double blind study, that the CDC and big pharma won’t do. Their position is that we THINK that the flu shot does good and saves lives like wearing a motorcycle helmet. So we can’t risk giving somebody a placebo, and possibly letting them get the flu and die.
So, I’m looking for arguments that are more than just opinions.
So double blind with a preference for non-CDC/Pharmaceutical studies. Anything else?
No.
That seems objective. Do you have anything like that, or do you want to continue to hide behind your mocking tone?
Oh come on, D. Don’t be ridiculous. You’ve got my real name and you know where to find me on this blog. I’m hardly hiding behind anything.
I’ll see what I can dig up that conforms to your request. I don’t exactly have a binder full of women who’ve conducted flu studies just sitting on my desk, so you’ll have to forgive me for wanting to know what your specifications are to qualify as a “legit” study.
D, per your request. There’s several hundred of these available– most of which get more specific (i.e., immune-compromised patients.)
Journal of the American Medical Association
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=189023
Conclusions Influenza vaccine is effective in preventing infection by influenza A and B in health care professionals and may reduce reported days of work absence and febrile respiratory illness. These data support a policy of annual influenza vaccination of health care professionals.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=193139 (you’ll like this one)
Conclusion Influenza vaccination of healthy working adults younger than 65 years can reduce the rates of ILI, lost workdays, and physician visits during years when the vaccine and circulating viruses are similar, but vaccination may not provide overall economic benefits in most years.
New England Journal of Medicine
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199510053331401
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19776407?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Conclusion: Vaccination against influenza has substantial health-related and economic benefits for healthy, working adults.
The Lancet
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(95)91434-X/abstract
Conclusion: Influenza vaccine is effective in reducing mortality from influenza, and efficacy seems to be greater after repeated annual vaccination than after first administration.
http://www.lancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(09)62003-1/abstract
Conclusion: (my words, not theirs– the H1N1 Vaccine used in China during the 2009 pandemic worked.)
http://general-medicine.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2010/121/2
Conclusion: Similar to the item above
Background on CDC methodology, which includes double-blind studies: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/vaccination/effectivenessqa.htm
Pediatr Infect Dis J.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19395948?ordinalpos=16&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Conclusion: One dose of LAIV provided clinically significant protection against influenza in young children previously unvaccinated against influenza; 2 doses provided additional protection. Protection after 2 doses in year 1 persisted through a second season without revaccination. LAIV excipients were not a major contributor to reactogenicity. These benefits provide support for increased use of LAIV in children > or =2 years of age.
So you give me a bunch of studies that are backed by the CDC and big pharma (and Chinese big pharma)?
Did you think that I wouldn’t read them?
I agree with you that there are lots of studies out there that support your position. I think that they are self serving to the people that fund them. I am not saying that they are wrong, just that there is also conflicting science by people who don’t have any skin in the game.
Big Pharma controls what is taught in our medical schools, and be careful if you try to offer something alternative. Case in point is that they have been trying to shut down the supplement industry for years, and the practice of Homeopathy.
I don’t trust the promises of the AMA, the CDC, Big Pharma, and the American Cancer society. Remember the war on cancer? We will have a cure in 5 years. I’ve been hearing that for forty years. It’s all big business.
If you can get outside of your comfort zone read “Forbidden Medicine” by Ellen Brown, an attorney who developed her research skills as a litigation attorney in L.A. She does a pretty thorough job of exploring the origins of the AMA, and their present day status, and their huge lobby. They are doing a pretty good job of controlling the medical profession, and it’s for their benefit, not yours or mine.
Ryan, I suggest you get your blood pressure taken because it seems I hit a nerve. I decide what injections I get, if any, not you, not government and certainly not an employer.
I guess you did not read my article or you would have read, not my research but others who are smarter than you or me, did the research and decided we do not have to get a flu shot. Try washing your hands on a regular basis and eat foods that are good for you. You will be healthier and for your information, I cannot rember the last time I got the flu because I take care of myself. I take personal responsibility. I don’t eat crap, smoke or drink alcohol, and then take meds to stay healthy.
You want a flu shot? Go ahead. I think big Pharma has Americans by the balls and loves to scare them into buying their over meds.
The Spanish happened in 1918. People were not accustomed to hygeine back then. So yes, back then it did kill alot of people. If you check your calendar, you will see its 2012 not 1918.
Yeah, that’s a fair comment and you did. Pet peeve of mine and my post wasn’t appropriate.
Ryan, I see you are passionate about people getting a flu shot and I respect that. I don’t know why you are and its none of my business.
I don’t care if people choose to take any vaccinations, if it makes them feel better. The point of my article is the freedom to choose what I think is right for me and threatening to fire me over it is plain wrong!
And I spent alot of time around hopitals in 2011 and I saw plenty of staff during flu season sneeze and cough in their hand and not wash up after. That is one of the fastest ways to spread germs.
Its the same in any public place. Its all about hygeine and how people just refuse to do it. I don’t think they even think about it.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=flu-shots-may-not-protect-the-elderly-or-the-very-young&page=2
A pretty good Scientific American article that includes the quote above.
Seems that the flu vaccine works best on those under 65 and over 2 years old, some years.
As a matter of epidemiology, it doesn’t matter whether everyone gets a flu shot — just that enough do to prevent an epidemic. (This presumes that the flu shot is effective against the small number of strains included within it. No one claims that it will be effective against an unexpected strain; it’s supposed to increase one’s odds of survival, not assure them.) I forget what the amount of the population has to have been vaccinated for that purpose — I vaguely remember it as being between 60% and 80% — but it certainly is well under 100%.
I think that people should get flu shots (as I do) and I hope that they will, but if some are violently opposed to it, as Inge is, it doesn’t harm the rest of us much. It’s sort of like refusing to evacuate one’s home with a hurricane coming — it can create problems, but mostly they are problems for oneself.
Gotta love those free riders.
I’mm vehemently against paying taxes. We can get by if the top 5% pay more. Does that mean I don’t have to pay taxes?
(Just being cute, Dr. D. Don’t read the riot act.)
If taxes were like the influenza virus …
(Damn, I shouldn’t start a sentence like that on the assumption that I’ll be able to figure out how to finish it.)
The flu shots are DEAD virus, not active, I really don’t see how something dead and not active can harm anything unless it comes back as a zombie virus. Autism/ADHD or hangnails are not caused by vaccines, find something else to blame it on-heredity?
If people get sick after the flu shot, then they must have already had a bug and didn’t know it. Flu shot doesnt make you sick anymore than going out in the cold will make you sick. Germs are what makes a person sick.
You are opening up smallpox, polio and every other disease/epidemic that was basically irradicated or lessened by not getting these vaccines that children have been getting since the 50’s.
MeriJoe, please have hard facts to back up your claims, otherwise they are opinions and we all know about those.
I make sure before I write about something to check my sources for accuracy and that they are not the Glen Becks of the world.
I stand behind my argument 100%
What statement of fact would you like additional support on?
I am a nurse and could get you anything you need-including the part about you only get sick from germs-please tell me what you need and I’ll provide it, no problem, 100%
How about evidence backing up everything you claimed to be true MeriJoe???
*Merijoe…..wrong again…..my goodness…..how can you be so wrong on so many issues? That take talent…of one kind or another.
Live virus…..tetnus shots last about 10 years. Dead Virus Tetnus shots…also
lasted about 10 years. That is called science…..not “I wonder how that works?”
You should go to our website: http://www.cuttingedge-atalkshow and pull up “How Stuff Works?” Then you could make it a favorite along with Wikepedia and Google and the next thing you know….you might actually have half a chance of being right on something.
wrong, dead virus=flu shots, did you want back up on that? That is called the truth, not “I’m not really a doctor but I play one on TV” Insult me all you want, that’s the truth and I will prove it.
Here you go Winny and you may like this too, Inge-http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm123694.pdf
Oh, one other thing Winny, a tetnaus injection is way different than a flu shot.
You should check out mybiginsultingpretentiousass.com
Now that’s talent… of one kind or another.
Maybe you can learn something about yourself.
*Excellent that you notice…..the difference. There is possibly hope….well…maybe not!
Here is an article about the flu shot that you might find interesting.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/11/20/flu-vaccine-exemption.aspx?np=true
How about the converse? Does an employer not have a right to minimize the cost of their healthcare, which they provide to employees? The cost of influenza is estimated at $8B annually.
Does an employer not have the right to maximize worker productivity? The flu causes an estimated 75 million missed days of work.
Does a private employer not have the right to demand basic personal hygiene from his or her employees? Is your employer allowed to limit your right not to shower? How about dress code? Can your employer limit your freedom of expression? Can he or she make you wear a uniform?
Let’s expand it to other employees: Do I not have a right to work in an environment free from illness, toxic exposure, or other health hazards? CalOSHA says I do.
Does your right to privacy extend so far as to permit you to cause harm to me? To kill me?
I think not.
I used to work in restaurants…over 20 years. If you knew what their idea of “hygiene” was you would never eat in one again. Did you watch last weeks 20/20 where they looked inside the restaurant biz?
I agree with you that people should have the decency to stay home when they are sick. Most go to work anyway because they don’t get paid sick days. Lots of employees in restaurants work while sick and are contagious! I used to get so mad, not at them but at the manager who told them to come in anyway when the employee called in sick.
I do not believe OSHA covers sick people. I may be wrong, but I will ask around.
Your other arguments about uniforms, etc. are not the same as forcing someone to take medicines/vaccines and I will not even address those becuase you are way over the top. I think you listen to way too much FOX news.
This is not quite the same but falls in the range of employers obligations and that has to do with providing healthcare. I believe its not the job of employers to cough up that bill. If an employee is laid off or fired they lose their health insurance and thats not right. Health insurance should not be tied into a persons job.
Many companies are cutting employee hours since the election from full time to part time in order not to have to pay insurance. The employee will have to come up with the money and after having their wages cut…good luck with that. I think that we will have singel payer healthcare because there will be more people without coverage, but thats another story.
Whoa whoa whoa, back the truck up.
1) It’s intentionally hyperbolic. I’m looking for where you’re drawing the line on what privacy rights are. Don’t “FOX News” me because I asked if you think an employer can make an employee take a shower. It’s actually a pretty good proxy and one could make the claim that vaccinations are part of hygiene (not to say it’s a solid claim, but a reasonable one.)
2) It sounds like you’re stating that an employee’s right to privacy supersedes a private employer’s right to dictate terms of employment?
Clearly the employee has a choice: Get the shot, decrease the financial burden on the business and the employer; get a bonus. Don’t get the shot, increase the financial burden placed on the business and the employer, don’t get a bonus.
How’s that not fair?
As of today, my employer offers a two types of medical benefits. Plan A, which includes discounted rates for volunteering a health questionnaire, documenting exercise activity, and pledging to eat better food based on results from the questionnaire; or Plan B, which includes higher (standard) rates by not participating in the questionnaire or documenting any activity.
This two tier structure was selected as a way to reduce health care costs paid by the company and to pass on some of the savings to the employee.
Is this going too far for you? If so, why? If not, what’s the difference between giving a discount on medical rates or refusing to pay a bonus for an employee’s unhealthy choices?
Also, an aside– worked for 4 years as a waiter. We did pretty darn well in the hygiene department, but I concede your point. No one wants to know how the sausage is made.
Here is another article written by CNN, albeit from 2007, but still relevant
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/10/31/flu.hm.flu.shot/
First of all Ryan, congrats on finding an employer who offers health insurance. Those days are numbered, especially when the insurance companies plan to raise rates again.
I worked in restaurants and we were not offered health insurance, paid sick days or vacations. If we wanted time off we had to find a replacement and hoped they showed up.
I don’t care what carrot is being offered to me to get a flu shot or any other vaccination. I will not get one. Period. I cannot be bought which probably sounds weird since we live in an era where money talks…loudly!
We can go round around about this. People are not dropping like flies because of the flu. Don’t you find it odd that pandemic vaccinations get immunity from lawsuits? If there is no risk, why immunity????
In my opinion, people put too much trust in our government reps. I don’t.
Inge, you didn’t answer the question– too obtrusive or not? You’re talking about privacy rights, which I assume aren’t exclusive to vaccinations. I want to know where you draw the line. You should be able to draw it, correct?
Flu ranks just behind diabetes in terms of annual American deaths caused by disease. I’d call that significant. Maybe not dropping like flies, but significant. It’s more significant using world wide numbers, and much more significant if you’re viewing absolute deaths in terms of the 20th century.
I don’t find it odd that pandemic vaccines have immunity (get it?) from lawsuits. It makes production of the vaccine significantly cheaper, which means more people get the shot.
*So does male pattern baldness……and they have something you should take for that……..but it is totally optional.
You obviously didn’t read our earlier response. One size does not fit all. Even the Polio Vaccine has had victims and side effects. Nothing is for sure in life. Everyone needs to take charge of their own healthcare. Some folks are even 7th Day Adventists or Science of Mind folks…..some are even from areas like West Virginia….that don’t believe in Revenuers…and that is their choice.
List all the Expert Opinion you want….and then check to see how much they are raking in each year as Lobbyists for Big Pharma. Just as Inge
told you……do what you want…..we could care less. It’s when you want to decide what we do with our bodies that we have an serious problem.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Dude (or dudette), that makes absolutely no sense and has no bearing on the previous comment.
http://christianscience.com/what-is-christian-science/about-the-founder-mary-baker-eddy
*But then you don’t want to know what others think….do you?
Can someone translate please?
Loosely translated, that means that it’s cocktail hour at the Winship’s.
*Actually it means….”Get out of your myopic world ….where if it doesn’t fit your preconception of reality…….it doesn’t exist”. Folks have been thinking about what is good for others for thousands of years and that doesn’t make them right anymore than – “being in organized crime for 100 years… must make it legit.”
“There was a recent story in the news that a healthcare provider threatened to fire employees that refused to get a flu shot. Wait. What? What happened to a person’s right to privacy, especially when it comes to their body? Forced vaccinations? This can’t be legal or can it? It seems that those of us who live in states with “at will” employment can be fired for almost any reason and refusing to get a flu shot can be one of them.”
As much as I hate losing our freedoms and right to privacy, it doesn’t suprise me that we are from a story like this. The more important question is why would the employers care in this day in age? I believe it is due to liability. Let’s say if a patient gets a serious staph infection from the floor of this hospital, they sue the hospital. Plantiff’s lawyer would need some ways to back their claim of neglience of cleaniness. Could they use that nurses not getting flu shots during flu season as a reason to back their claims. Can the employers dig into these employees private lives like to show they are not in need of a flu shot because they are proactively taking personal responsiblilty into their health?
I don’t know, just seems like that to me.
Another article you many find interesting:
http://www.anh-usa.org/flu-sho-forced-on-health-workers/
here’s another.
http://naturalsociety.com/why-does-government-care-about-vaccinating-you/
The next time a disease is eradicated or nearly so by people not being immunized, give me a ring.
*As usual, everyone misses the point. When you go into the Armed Services, you sign away any rights you might have regarding what vaccines you might be forced to have during your various tours. The vaccines we were given during the Vietnam era are somewhat different than the vaccines being our troops that go to Afghanistan or other areas of the Middle East. Obviously, in tropical climes…..having a Malaria Vaccination…(which by the way are not particularly effective – and in some cases give you Malaria!) is probably a worthwhile idea. Back in the 1950’s, in order to travel to certain Carribean Islands you were required to get a small pox, tetnaus and yellow fever vaccination, before you got visa to get there. Today, if you wanted to go to Haiti for example and do some volunteer work there – it would be rather wise to see what various Health Agencies might suggest would be fairly good preventative treatments or therapies. Hopefully, you won’t be taking any children under 12 to help you do your volunteer work….so we would not suggest that.they get any vaccinations for those diseases. Remember the grand Cipro rush when the Anthrax Scare occurred after 9-11? If you worked in a Senate Office Building in D.C…..that
might in fact been a pretty good idea. Since we were here in California…most civilians didn’t get or take Cipro. Should they have? Probably not.
When the chances of the San Onofre Nuclear Facility had its little leak….there was a great call to issue Iodine Pills to every man, woman and child in Southern California. The contingency plans probably have stockpiled millions of doses some place they haven’t told us – but it would be wise not to take Iodine Pills or Injections frivolously.
We are trying to answer your concerns honestly and seriously. Let’s just go back to the original argument – Each person is responsible for there own health and if they have either a philosophical, metaphysicla or allergic reaction to some of these things – they should not be forced into the process. Remember when people with disease had a notice from the Health Dept. plastered on their door?
*Quarantine Notices…..sorry…couldn’t think of that old technology term by County Health Dept’s. that listed Infatigo, Measles, Mumps, Chicken Pox and Ring Worm……as possible reasons to stay away or make deliveries to those who were so designated. Never saw one of those for Veneral Disease or Crabs….but we are sure someone knew – who had what.
Interesting that even during the height of the Aids Panic in the 80’s, no one ever got that notice on their door.
I declined the flu shot at my place of employment based on my religious belief; my question is can an employer mandate those who opt out to wear a mask for the entire work day?
California Bill SB13 that required anyone in the medical profession to get an annual flu shot by 2015 was vetoed by Governor Brown. All the hospitals I contacted require hospital personnel to wear a mask if they refuse to get a flu shot. It seems like a good trade off to me. Masks are worn anyway if medical staff enters an area that a patient is in “isolation”.
It seems ridiculous to me though that someone needs an acceptible reason, like a religious belief to abstain from getting a flu shot. “No” is a complete sentence.
update! read this article about the flu shot:
http://worldtruth.tv/10-reasons-why-flu-shots-are-more-dangerous-than-a-flu/