As rumors of impeachment have been on the wires relating to both former Vice President Dick Cheney and George W. Bush and, whereas I listened to Bill O’Reilly on this topic earlier today, let me suggest to my friends on the other side of the aisle to consider two other Democratic U.S. leaders whose actions took place in my lifetime.
I do not recall anyone from our party calling for the impeachment of president Harry S. Truman when he authorized dropping atomic bombs in Japan. Enola Gay dropped “Little Boy” over Hiroshima which was soon followed by our dropping “Fat Man” on the city of Nagasaki. The damage was devastating, but necessary to save American lives. As of 1950 the death and injury count of those two attacks approach 350,000 Japanese. There have been readers of this blog who have debated that act with me on earlier posts.
What about former president FDR who signed (Executive Order #9066) on Feb 19, 1942. This authorized the rounding up of Japanese Americans and their forced relocation to internment camps as stated in the following text:
“On February 19, 1942, soon after the beginning of World War II, Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066. The evacuation order commenced the round-up of 120,000 Americans of Japanese heritage to one of 10 internment camps—officially called “relocation centers”—in California, Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, and Arkansas.
Why Were the Camps Established?
Roosevelt’s executive order was fueled by anti-Japanese sentiment among farmers who competed against Japanese labor, politicians who sided with anti-Japanese constituencies, and the general public, whose frenzy was heightened by the Japanese attack of Pearl Harbor. More than 2/3 of the Japanese who were interned in the spring of 1942 were citizens of the United States.”
Note: During Ronald Reagan’s term in office we signed legislation and issued an apology. In addition to that apology we also provided $1.6 billion in reparations to these victims whose only crime was being of Japanese ancestry.
So, the message to Dennis Kucinich and other head hunters, stop throwing rocks form your glass houses. We are still in a war against terror and there are actions that need to be taken to protect American lives.
While I may have issue with some of the prior administration actions or policies, our congressional leaders have more pressing matters to attend to than devoting time to any impeachment proceedings.
Juice readers, please feel free to weigh in on this topic which simply is not going away.
America’s corporate, political and media leaders have become very adept at sweeping things under the rug.
Do you REALLY want to align yourself with that crowd?
I highly recommend Glenn Greenwald’s writings on this subject, one of which can be found here…
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/01/15/ignatius
Of course the Bush, Cheney, Condi, Rummy, and the other top Bush regime officials should be prosecuted for war crimes. They launched an aggressive, anti-constitutional war in Iraq, killing more than 4,000 Americans and up to 1 million Iraqis. They lied to us about everyting, not just Saddam’s non-existent WMDs and al-Quaeda connections.
They violated the Constitution at every turn, as Glenn Greenwald has been detailing (link in @2 above) — all on the excuse they were “defending” us.
They also wrecked Afghanistan and Somalia.
But they won’t be prosecuted by the Democrats because they’ll want to keep their own freedom from prosecution when Obama’s regime leaves office. The Duopoly protects itself.
At least in the arena of public opinion we can convict the Bush regime of criminal conduct. Just wait until the inside books come out about what really went on inside the Bush Kremlin.
Hell – let’s impeach and charge Abraham Lincoln for war crimes – 600,000 Americans died in war during his watch.
You people are out of your effen minds.
Don’t forget to charge every member congress who voted to give Bush the authority and appropriated funds for the Iraq and Afgan wars.
Doo-doo heads!
Truman-Pearl Harbor vs. an attack based on doctored-and false- evidence.
FDR- ditto w/ the additional proviso that individuals and society are a product of their times. I daresay that any historical research into the real threat posed by Japanese cells in the U.S. is strictly VERBOTEN on academic turf.
We should go after LBJ too – his phony “Gulf of Tonkin Resolution” got us into the Vietnem War – 50K dead Americans in that war and a gazillion Vietnamese killed.
“I daresay that any historical research into the real threat posed by Japanese cells in the U.S. is strictly VERBOTEN on academic turf.”
Not so. A Japanese-American history professor at Pomona College and I have discussed this issue at length. He surprised my by noting that in Hawaii (where he grew up) there were all sorts of people of Japanese descent. Some were citizens and some weren’t. And complete loyalty to the US could be counted on. Hawaii was no doubt full of Japanese spies.
(And the US was probably riddled with NAZI spies too, but no Germans got rounded up).
Nevertheless the internment of US citizens was a crime – a blatant violation of the 5th and 14th Amendments. We are always being told by the tinpot warriers that we are fighting to secure our freedoms; you can’t do that when one of your first war-time decrees is a violation of the Constitution.
And pardon me for digressing from the point of the post – whatever that was.
Sorry. Complete loyalty to the US could not be counted on.
David Z.
This beocmes a grey area for Constitutional purists. We have the War Powers Resolution and the FISA court to deal with. Here’s an example:
The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court denied on Thursday a second request from the American Civil Liberties Union that it open up its deliberations and issue unclassified rulings.
Following the passage and signing of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) Amendments Act in early July, the ACLU filed a motion with the court to gain access to the unclassified portions of any rulings that pertained to the constitutionality of the act and to allow the group to file legal documents and argue in front of the court’s judges. The court denied the requests, arguing that the potential for classified information to be compromised by such proceedings, which have not historically been public, was too great.
Junior.
I do not see president Obama supporting this effort for two reasons.
First. In case his administration faces similar charges when they are leaving office.
Second. Did you notice how friendly he and president Bush were as president Bush headed to Marine One. They truly embraced. Some cynics might say that president Bush gave president Obama a big hug in hopes that no action would be taken against him, or should that occur, he would receive a full pardon. I am surprised that someone like Keith O. has not made that leap.
Intelligence that escalated Vietnam War disputed
By CALVIN WOODWARD
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON — A spy-agency analysis contends a second attack on U.S. ships in the Gulf of Tonkin never happened, casting further doubt on the leading rationale for escalation of the Vietnam War.
The agency put out more than 140 long-secret documents in response to requests from researchers trying to get to the bottom of an episode that unfolded in the South China Sea on Aug. 4, 1964, and has been disputed since.
Among the documents is an article written by one of the agency’s historians for its classified publication, Cryptologic Quarterly, declaring that his review of the complete intelligence shows beyond doubt “no attack happened that night.”
Claims that North Vietnamese boats attacked two warships that Aug. 4 — just two days after an initial assault on one of those ships — rallied Congress behind Johnson’s buildup of the war. The Gulf of Tonkin resolution passed three days later empowered him to take “all necessary steps” in the region and opened the way for large-scale commitment of U.S. forces.
And 50K Americans killed in Vietnam.
Impeach LBJ – dig him up and impeach his bones !!
Juice Brother John S.
Perhaps George W Bush was following precedent set by those former leaders named above.
Each of us can become Monday morning quarterbacks and find flaws in actions taken by our former presidents including one of my heros named Reagan.
Rintrah Says: “Truman-Pearl Harbor vs. an attack based on doctored-and false- evidence.”
What are you taking about rintrah? Truman was not vice-president until 1945 – Pearl Harbor was Dec. 7, 1941. And besides, the post is about atomic bombs dropped on Japan in August of 1945 to end WWII.
Get your history and thoughts straight before you post.
Rewmember the good ol days when we thought that Iraq was about oil.
In retrospect we were so naive. It was about BUSINESS. Motorola, United technologies, Pepsico (taco Bell), Whirlpool, Ford, GM and hundreds of other companies profited on this folly.
It could be aurgued that it staved off recession, EXCEPT for none of the previous shared the bounty, no American jobs ect…..
Before any defenders pipe up, maybe they oughtta look for the 2.45 BILLION that GWB pesonally approved on the final day of Bremmers tenure as head of the CPA (450B sent via commercial aircraft.
People like Junior who want to shift the focus from Bush to previous administrations are simply in league with the status quo which would like to sweep America’s mistakes and lawbreaking under the rug.
And THAT is the ultimate evisceration of American values.
anon,
right – sure – whatever …
Hell yes! Investigate them for war crimes. Hiroshima / Nagasaki / fire bombing were arguably gray area jus in bello acts, but considering the weapons systems available in the 40s, targets attacked, etc, not out of line. Similarly, the internment of the Japanese is a regrettable part of our past. Last I heard, though, they weren’t tortured as a matter of policy. Feel free to argue that we haven’t been torturing detainees, but you’d be fighting a losing battle. It’s been a violation of domestic and international law and John McCain’s torture report that he released in Dec 2008 places the responsibility squarely at the feet of Rumsfeld and Cheney. Investigate. If they’re guilty, lock them up. If they’re innocent, then their names are clear and we can move on.
J
Please let off the “spin cycle” pedal.
While I support droppping of the atomic bombs in Japan I disagree with your comment that this act was not out of line. Tell that to all the peaceafists.
And please don’t hit me with conforming to the Geneva Convention rules relating to political prisoners when these terrorists are not part of any national military service. I guess it was OK when American workers were beheaded with their bodies hung from a bridge. How many detained prisoners at GITMO were beheaded? War crimes?
Let me give you an example of a war crime. The Japanese army massacred 200,000 civilians and POW’s in Nanking, China. That my friend is a war crime.
Larry,
Hate to break it to ya Larry, but those we’ve tortured at Guantanamo, Abu Grahib, through extraordinary rendition and others, include people picked up on the field of battle. In many cases, these aren’t just “terrorists”. They’re actual wartime combatants. And yes, they do have affiliations with specific countries. So yes, the Geneva Conventions do apply to these people.
If your example of American workers being beheaded is meant to relieve us of any moral culpability for our actions, well, then you’re just another of those who thinks America’s transgressions should be swept under the rug.
That’s not the America I know and love.
I think this is an important discussion to have, Larry, thanks for starting it. I’ll attach a portion of the Senate Armed Service Committee inquiry into the treatment of detainees in US custody. The executive summary is quite short and lays out the facts surrounding this discussion nicely. Also see Matt Alexander’s book “How to Break a Terrorist” for more insight into effective interrogation techniques. (also http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/28/AR2008112802242.html) Feel free to revisit the Geneva conventions or the Laws of land warfare if you don’t believe that international law applies. Hamdan V. Rumsfeld, I believe, also supports the view that CA III applies. I’ve seen that bridge you refer to with my own eyes, I want to win this thing more than you can imagine. When it’s over, I want to be able to look myself in the mirror and say we did it the right way. If the previous administration committed crimes in my name, as a citizen of this nation, I want to know about it. And if they didn’t, I’d like to know that too.
“What sets us apart from our enemies in this fight… is how we behave. In everything we do, we must observe the standards and values that dictate that we treat noncombatants and detainees with dignity and respect. While we are warriors, we are also all human beings”
— General David Petraeus May 10, 2007
(U) The collection of timely and accurate intelligence is critical to the safety of U.S. personnel deployed abroad and to the security of the American people here at home. The methods by which we elicit intelligence information from detainees in our custody affect not only the reliability of that information, but our broader efforts to win hearts and minds and attract allies to our side.
(U) Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists are taught to expect Americans to abuse them. They are recruited based on false propaganda that says the United States is out to destroy Islam. Treating detainees harshly only reinforces that distorted view, increases resistance to cooperation, and creates new enemies. In fact, the April 2006 National Intelligence Estimate “Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States” cited “pervasive anti U.S. sentiment among most Muslims” as an underlying factor fueling the spread of the global jihadist movement. Former Navy General Counsel Alberto Mora testified to the Senate Armed Services Committee in June 2008 that “there are serving U.S. flag-rank officers who maintain that the first and second identifiable causes of U.S. combat deaths in Iraq – as judged by their effectiveness in recruiting insurgent fighters into combat – are, respectively the symbols of Abu Ghraib and
Guantanamo.”
(U) The abuse of detainees in U.S. custody cannot simply be attributed to the actions of
“a few bad apples” acting on their own. The fact is that senior officials in the United States
government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to
create the appearance of their legality, and authorized their use against detainees. Those efforts damaged our ability to collect accurate intelligence that could save lives, strengthened the hand of our enemies, and compromised our moral authority. This report is a product of the
Committee’s inquiry into how those unfortunate results came about.
#19 anon.
“Wartime combatants”? Have I missed the news bulletin? We declared war against the armed forces of Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan?