Picture courtesy of the AP
Thursday morning KNX Radio news reported on an incident on Wednesday at the border with Mexico in which several vehicles tried to run through a border crossing point to enter the US and US Border Control officers opened fire on the vehicles as people in the vehicles shot back. Some kind of shoot-out occurred.
The report stated that the people who had tried to run the border were human traffickers and that one of the vehicles they were in had previously been stolen from the parking lot at Sea World. Seemed to me that the story was all too typical – criminals from Mexico come into the US to steal cars and take them back to Mexico. Some of those cars are used in criminal activity in Mexico, and in this case to try and run a border crossing and come into the United States.
It was nice to hear that in at least one instance of human trafficking and illegal entry into the United States the human rights violators and lawbreakers were caught. Then, the last words of this KNX story hit me between the eyes – “immigration rights advocates decried the incident, stating that Border Agents had used excessive force.”
Excessive force? Can there be such a thing when people in stolen cars, some of whom are shooting guns while trying to crash through a border crossing, receive return fire? Even if they were not shooting, isn’t running the border like that grounds to be shot at? What have we become if we are now at a point where law enforcement cannot use any means at their disposal to stop and catch people in such a situation?
Maybe a good deterrent would be for the United States to announce a shoot to kill policy in any such future incidents. Otherwise, let’s just announce an open border policy and be done with it.
If I am being shot at I will most certainly return fire if I can.
Legally it depends on who shot 1st.
“Maybe a good deterrent would be for the United States to announce a shoot to kill policy in any such future incidents.”
Law enforcement can’t shoot at someone unless lives are immediately in danger (which was probably the case here). But a blanket shoot-to-kill policy for border running sounds like something that would come out of a corrupt 3rd world dictatorship. What the hell is wrong with you?
does it not surprise you that ILLEGAL immigration rights advocates decried the incident as excessive force . renemeber in their thinking they can cross anytime they want to and its racist if you defend the border .
Who are these groups, we need to call them a give them a bit of a talking to!.
Does anyone know who the wack jobs are???
michell its more n likely the usual crowd . la raza , lulac , border brothers , aclu ,
ooops forgot one more maldeff
Michelle,
I just reread Thomas Cahill’s wonderful account of the fall of the Roman Empire “How The Irish Saved Civilazation”.
Interestingly, Cahill compares the current situation in San Ysidro (and Florida) to the assembly of the unwashed masses in Decemeber of 406.
As logic goes, the trickling of immigrants pose a real threat to America.
Oh but wait a minute, it’s 2009, not 486!
No. 2 – in my post the option of a shoot to kill order was intended to apply to those who are brandishing weapons in order to breach the border, not to those who come accross by more passive means – though I recognize some will say that still goes too far, others will say not far enough.
Thanks for the compliment, i dont think i will be saving any empires!. But i suppose ya never know!.
But remember, Irish blood 486, same Irish blood 2009:)
As logic goes, the trickling of immigrants pose a real threat to America.
Its one thing to have the trickling of immigrants it another thing to have an influx of the poor. Last night i attended OUSD meeting hispanic scores are through the floor, i could see the embarrasment in the faces of the superintendent. Mr. Ortega, (countcil member), started giving a speech, about the fact that its not all the teachers fault, that Orange Unifed Sucks, it is the fault of the parents too. What he failed to mention that white and Asian students are doing well. Their was no hispanic parents present at the meeting. So i am writing him to tell him, he needs to address his concerns for bad parenting to the hispanics!. And i bet he wont!.
Nice speech though, wrong people!.
As the husband of a woman who has worked a long time in an elementary school office (not Orange Unified) I can tell you that a large number of parents do not attend back to school nights, do not engage with their child’s education, and are bewildered when a half day school that is on the calendar occurs and their kids are out at noon and they claim “I didn’t know”. This happens in large numbers even when a phone call is made to each child’s home the day before. If I was to generalize, I would say it is more of a socio-economic phenom. than it is with any particular racial group. A goodly number of parents seem to be pre-occupied with their daily lives and do not tune in to their child’s education, school schedule, etc. Sad situation, but reality.
#10,
You are are 100% correct social conditions of this type are economic in nature.
Latin-American countries to the south are affected economically and therefore present negative social conditions due to oppressive governments.
Certain individuals and groups with agendas will ignore this because it conflicts with their agendas.
Here are some facts to support your comment.
Barrow (2005) finds increases in average personal and household incomes for Mexican Americans in the 21st century. U.S. born Mexican Americans earn more and are represented more in the middle- and upper-class segments more than recently arriving Mexican immigrants. It should be noted, however, that Mexican Americans are not well represented in the professions. Most of the immigrants from Mexico come from the lower classes with lineage of family employed in lower skilled jobs. Thus, the kind of Mexican that arrives in the United States doesn’t have a history of being involved in professions. Recently, some professionals from Mexico have been migrating, but to make the transition from one country to another it involves a lot of re-training and re-adjusting to conform to US standards—i.e. professional licensing is required.[citation needed] According to James P. Smith of the Research and Development Corporation, the children and grandchildren of Latino immigrants tend to lessen educational and income gaps with native whites. Immigrant Latino men make about half of what native whites do, while second generation US-born Latinos make about 78 percent of the salaries of their native white counterparts.[57]
Adaptation of Mexican food tailor for the mainstream America marketHuntington (2005) argues that the sheer number, concentration, linguistic homogeneity, and other characteristics of Latin American immigrants will erode the dominance of English as a nationally unifying language, weaken the country’s dominant cultural values, and promote ethnic allegiances over a primary identification as an American. Testing these hypotheses with data from the U.S. Census and national and Los Angeles opinion surveys, Citrin et al. (2007) show that Hispanics (in general but not Mexicans specifically) acquire English and lose Spanish rapidly beginning with the second generation, and appear to be no more or less religious or committed to the work ethic than native-born non-Mexican American whites.
South et al. (2005) examine Hispanic spatial assimilation and inter-neighborhood geographic mobility. Their longitudinal analysis of seven hundred Mexican, Puerto Rican, and Cuban immigrants followed from 1990 to 1995 finds broad support for hypotheses derived from the classical account of assimilation into American society. High income, English-language use, and embeddedness in American social contexts increased Latin American immigrants’ geographic mobility into multi-ethnic neighborhoods. US citizenship and years spent in the United States were positively associated with geographic mobility into different neighborhoods, and coethnic contact was inversely associated with this form of mobility, but these associations operated largely through other predictors. Prior experiences of ethnic discrimination increased and residence in public housing decreased the likelihood that Latino immigrants would move from their original neighborhoods, while residing in metropolitan areas with large Latino populations led to geographic moves into “less Anglo” census tracts.[58]
I had the most brilliant conversation with my new neighbour who is Mexican. I asked him, can you tell me the honest truth, why hispanics are doing so bad in schools. I told him i had my own idea’s why, but i wanted to hear it from the horses mouth. He did not mess around with words and said, “The parents don’t care about Education, Mexicans value manual work over anything else”, and then i ask him, “why do Mexican’s refuse to learn English”, he said, “Mexicans believe that they would lose their soul (Alma in spanish”, if they came to the oppressors land and learned the language”. They really do believe this is their land and they have every right to be here, legal or not. They also believe that with the large influx eventually it will be their land and the people that are here, will need to adapt to their culture.
We talked about the fact that Mexico, just celebrated “The Saint Patricks”, the Irish fella’s that died in the American/Mexican war. I really had the best conversation with him. I said to him, “ya know i am causing alot of pissed off Mexican’s, because i give them alot of shite”. He said don’t worry they hate me more than they hate you, they believe a Mexican who has an American accent and an education is their worst nightmare!.
He told me alot of great stuff, that i would have never have known, had i not asked a real Mexican fella, willing and not afraid to tell the truth.
So, do we need to close the border?. or do we need to make the Mexican’s understand that the land that was stolen from them might well be their saving grace!.
Man i feel like Cary Bradshore, writing about, “Mexican in the city.”
🙂
Read this again. These are studies. You base your comments based on a conversation with other ignorant persons.
A bigot is some one that ignores facts so to stay with their prejudices.
“I said to him, “ya know i am causing alot of pissed off Mexican’s, because i give them alot of shite”.”
Exactly all you offer is “shite”.
From WIKIPEDIA:
Barrow (2005) finds increases in average personal and household incomes for Mexican Americans in the 21st century. U.S. born Mexican Americans earn more and are represented more in the middle- and upper-class segments more than recently arriving Mexican immigrants. It should be noted, however, that Mexican Americans are not well represented in the professions. Most of the immigrants from Mexico come from the lower classes with lineage of family employed in lower skilled jobs. Thus, the kind of Mexican that arrives in the United States doesn’t have a history of being involved in professions. Recently, some professionals from Mexico have been migrating, but to make the transition from one country to another it involves a lot of re-training and re-adjusting to conform to US standards—i.e. professional licensing is required.[citation needed] According to James P. Smith of the Research and Development Corporation, the children and grandchildren of Latino immigrants tend to lessen educational and income gaps with native whites. Immigrant Latino men make about half of what native whites do, while second generation US-born Latinos make about 78 percent of the salaries of their native white counterparts.[57]
Adaptation of Mexican food tailor for the mainstream America marketHuntington (2005) argues that the sheer number, concentration, linguistic homogeneity, and other characteristics of Latin American immigrants will erode the dominance of English as a nationally unifying language, weaken the country’s dominant cultural values, and promote ethnic allegiances over a primary identification as an American. Testing these hypotheses with data from the U.S. Census and national and Los Angeles opinion surveys, Citrin et al. (2007) show that Hispanics (in general but not Mexicans specifically) acquire English and lose Spanish rapidly beginning with the second generation, and appear to be no more or less religious or committed to the work ethic than native-born non-Mexican American whites.
South et al. (2005) examine Hispanic spatial assimilation and inter-neighborhood geographic mobility. Their longitudinal analysis of seven hundred Mexican, Puerto Rican, and Cuban immigrants followed from 1990 to 1995 finds broad support for hypotheses derived from the classical account of assimilation into American society. High income, English-language use, and embeddedness in American social contexts increased Latin American immigrants’ geographic mobility into multi-ethnic neighborhoods. US citizenship and years spent in the United States were positively associated with geographic mobility into different neighborhoods, and coethnic contact was inversely associated with this form of mobility, but these associations operated largely through other predictors. Prior experiences of ethnic discrimination increased and residence in public housing decreased the likelihood that Latino immigrants would move from their original neighborhoods, while residing in metropolitan areas with large Latino populations led to geographic moves into “less Anglo” census tracts.[58]
Bull shite, do you really think i would listen to you. You cant even bring yourself to tell the truth about what hispanics realy feel. And it makes total sense to me, that people that have been here for years who still can not speak English, do so because they dont want to!.
What i offer is lets come to an understand based on the fact that Mexicans are distroying their chance of success, based on a old chip on the shoulder.
Its the truth,plain and simple, and my neighbour is far from ignorant, he has a masters degree, he got it using his brain, not his colour, unlike you Dr!.
By the way he is writing a book on the subject!.
You should be proud of your Mexican brother, he is a credit to your culture:)
A bigot is some one that ignores facts so to stay with their prejudices.
You should know Doc!.
Michele,
“Its the truth,plain and simple, and my neighbour is far from ignorant, he has a masters degree, he got it using his brain, not his colour, unlike you Dr!.”
So you admitt Mexicans can get an education without affirmitive action. Your neighbor did , according to your comment above. Cool. enough said.
Facts are those that are backed by studies.
“You cant even bring yourself to tell the truth about what hispanics realy feel.”
You base your opinion on how Hispanics feel based on what you neighbor(one person) feels???????
Your MO is understood, encite through lies, generalities and prejudices. Yes, you are some one we should listen to- not!!!!!
Your comments are pure prejudiced opinions.
You do not listen for a reason, you have prejudices.
Read post # 14. facts-studies contradict you and your neighbor. A masters degree or any other degree does not make you an expert on other deciplines. You and your neighbor are ignorant because you wish not to educate yourselves further than your personal opinions.
For example for the most part I am ignorant on thoracic surgery, how to get a satallite in space, how to solve world hunger ect. Without studies to back up a comment on these deciplines my comment would be just an opinion like what you offer on everything you distort.
Michelle,
“By the way he is writing a book on the subject!.
You should be proud of your Mexican brother, he is a credit to your culture:)”
He is Mexican, but possibly not have the same culture I do.
Assuming your neighbor is real, please let him know of this blog. I would like his take on your posts. Also it would be interesting to discuss his future book and his research on the matter.
Michelle,
Michelle Quinn Says:
September 26th, 2009 at 10:44 am
A bigot is some one that ignores facts so to stay with their prejudices.
You should know Doc!.
I do not ignore facts(based on studies). I present them. This contradicts the definition of bigot. It does however define you.
So you admitt Mexicans can get an education without affirmitive action. Your neighbor did , according to your comment above. Cool. enough said.
Admitt it??, i endorse it!. Affirmative action, was ridiculous and not needed. An American indian, who became a doctor of education, took a school in Oakland, that had a API of 0 and make it # 2 in the State of California!. All minorities!.
I wish i could remember his last name, his first name is Ben. He is well known for his racial slurs, bad manners and extreme personality.
“Sounds like me”, but he loves the kids, and refuses to believe that race, has anything to do with ability to succeed. He is a strong force aganist the exucses of loser parents and is a tyrannt with lazy kids.love him or hate him, he has taken a group of kids and given them the chance to go to ivy league schools on their own meritt.
Your MO is understood, encite through lies, generalities and prejudices. Yes, you are some one we should listen to- not!!!!!
To encite through, reality, that is my MO. You ran for a seat at Santiago, why dont you run for a seat at SASD, encite the kids, with your experience of success, that they too can be a Doctor, but they need to work for it!. Encite the parents, with your own parenting skills, that not taking an interest in their children education is a fatal mistake!.
Encite with the truth!.
Read post # 14. facts-studies contradict you and your neighbor. A masters degree or any other degree does not make you an expert on other deciplines. You and your neighbor are ignorant because you wish not to educate yourselves further than your personal opinions.
Well, who do you think writes all these studies??
Do you really think that a right or leftie hack with a degree can be trusted to present the truth??. Obviously the difference between you and my neighbour is that he actually is very much involved with the ever day Hispanic, unlike your self who hangs out with decendents of spanish envaders and American Elitists.
I have also gave you studies by the Heritage Foundation that you refuse to believe, why??. because they actually do the ground work, that is need to get to the truth. Your country men feel exact’ly how my country men feel about the oppressor, envader. Except with you its the Americans, with us its the British. Its hard to break the cycle of old haterd, unless you face it!.Catholics did in the early 90’s and now we have become the fast growing economic and educatioal force in N.Ireland. We put aside a old cause, and took up a new fight, the fight to succeed without using the old excuse of British oppression!.
You are the old cause Doc, we need a new one for the Mexicans!.
“Your country men feel exact’ly how my country men feel about the oppressor, envader. Except with you its the Americans, with us its the British.”
Where do you get this rubbish. Place a link. We as you put it do not hate America. We love it and will defend it with our lives. You are full of crap.
“Obviously the difference between you and my neighbour is that he actually is very much involved with the ever day Hispanic, unlike your self who hangs out with decendents of spanish envaders and American Elitists.”
You have no idea what I do and do not do. Again an ignorant opinion by Michelle Quinn.
“Do you really think that a right or leftie hack with a degree can be trusted to present the truth??.
But we should listen to you, a right wing conservative with no education on social issues, a member of a group which above you adivice us not to trust????????
“have also gave you studies by the Heritage Foundation that you refuse to believe, why??. because they actually do the ground work,”
Your brains seems to clutter. This foundation is a refernce in the article on post #14. They agree with me. If you agree with them then you agree with me. HELLO!!!!
“To encite through, reality, that is my MO. You ran for a seat at Santiago, why dont you run for a seat at SASD, encite the kids, with your experience of success, that they too can be a Doctor, but they need to work for it!. Encite the parents, with your own parenting skills, that not taking an interest in their children education is a fatal mistake!.
Encite with the truth!.”
The reality of poverty affects parental influence on kids. That is the truth not that they lack parenting skills. Again you speak out of ignorance.
If you endorse the fact that Hispanics can get their education without affirmative action then why do you assume ignorantly that some do and others do not without knwonig particulars of those you criticise?
“Admitt it??, i endorse it!. Affirmative action, was ridiculous and not needed. An American indian, who became a doctor of education, took a school in Oakland, that had a API of 0 and make it # 2 in the State of California!. All minorities!.
I wish i could remember his last name, his first name is Ben. He is well known for his racial slurs, bad manners and extreme personality.
“Sounds like me”, but he loves the kids, and refuses to believe that race, has anything to do with ability to succeed. He is a strong force aganist the exucses of loser parents and is a tyrannt with lazy kids.love him or hate him, he has taken a group of kids and given them the chance to go to ivy league schools on their own meritt.”
I doubt he accomplished this by making every single parents a participant. Rather I believe he did it by thinking out side the box. Possibly by giving these kids pride, hope and a message about escaping poverty.
This is different than your simplistic ignorant position that it is entirely due to Hispanic lack of parenting skills(a generality-your MO).
Where do you get this rubbish. Place a link. We as you put it do not hate America. We love it and will defend it with our lives. You are full of crap.
Why stop at a link, lets ask any teacher who teaches hispanics kids.
“O yeah”, go to the last post on “more hispanic’s want to come to this country”, look at the comment made by a Wilson Teacher!. Lets take a trip to Orange High, and ask the same kids that left school to attend “immigrant reform rallies”, with Mexican flags. I know you perfer to live in Orange instead of Santa Ana, it must be Orange Hills?.
You have no idea what I do and do not do. Again an ignorant opinion by Michelle Quinn.
Its a wild Quess!.
But we should listen to you, a right wing conservative with no education on social issues, a member of a group which above you adivice us not to trust????????
O yeah and pulling teeth, give’s you a headsup on social issue,s?. My grandda, use to take a string and put it on the door handle and pull his own teeth, its not that hard!.
You obviously don’t know must about Mexicans/latinas. Would you not consider their social values conservative: Aganist abortion, Aganist gay marriage, family values ect…. infact hispanics are more conservative than I am!. So what type of a conservative is a hispanic, “A latina Conservative”, they just do not have the same values or political views of “white Conservatives?”.
Seams i know more about Hispanic social views and values than you do!. By the way i got my satisics from a study done by the “Latina Caucus”.
Your brains seems to clutter. This foundation is a refernce in the article on post #14. They agree with me. If you agree with them then you agree with me. HELLO!!!!
Hello, i do agree, that their is so much more to why hispanics do not learn English.. ie.. living in area’s that is self contained hispanic, ie.. businesses that speak spanish, schools that will allow you to send your children speaking spanish, being a house wife in a spanish speaking neighbourhood, working with all spanish speaking people in low end jobs, having speak only spoken in the home, watching and listening to spanish media ect.ect.. Example.. why would someone need to learn Spanish in ladera Ranch??. Does not take a PHD.
Now you agree with me, that some hispanics feel not learning English is more of a poltical reason than a social reason!. Bet ya won’t!.
The reality of poverty affects parental influence on kids. That is the truth not that they lack parenting skills. Again you speak out of ignorance.
Again you speak only crap. India is one of the poorest nations on earth. But parents in india, see education as a priority. Immigrants who come here from india do very well as do poor Asians. And that is a fact.
The true poor are living in africa, india, iraq, Mexico. What excuse can you give the hispanics who live in Orange County Doc??. I do not see any beggers in the streets. Wiseup!.
I doubt he accomplished this by making every single parents a participant. Rather I believe he did it by thinking out side the box. Possibly by giving these kids pride, hope and a message about escaping poverty.
No,
i will get you his full name and you can read bout his life and how he became a Doctor of Education. He turned the school around as did Steve Perry, by not allowing the students to use their skin colour or poverty, as an excuse for failure.
loser parents are not uncommon, it is up to the school to overcome that and teach the child, by only expecting the best from the child and stop the cycle of bad choices and excuses for failure.
This is different than your simplistic ignorant position that it is entirely due to Hispanic lack of parenting skills(a generality-your MO).
Then why dont you call John Ortega of Orange Unified and ask him why, he stated that “A childs quality of education is based on not only the school, but the parent too”. Hispanics had API scores through the floor at OUSD. As i have said many times on this blogg, i believe without a doubt that not teaching hispanics is good for busniess for the: districts the union, and for low wage businesses. But it starts in the home, doc!.
And my exuse for the spelling and grammar mistakes??
I did not proof read!.It had nothing to do with my colour,or if i have money in my pocket!.
Michelle,
“sk the same kids that left school to attend “immigrant reform rallies”, with Mexican flags. I know you perfer to live in Orange instead of Santa Ana, it must be Orange Hills?.”
This has nothing to do with hating the USA. As you point out it is about immigration reform. Try again.
O yeah and pulling teeth, give’s you a headsup on social issue,s?. My grandda, use to take a string and put it on the door handle and pull his own teeth, its not that hard!.
You obviously don’t know must about “Mexicans/latinas. Would you not consider their social values conservative: Aganist abortion, Aganist gay marriage, family values ect…. infact hispanics are more conservative than I am!. So what type of a conservative is a hispanic, “A latina Conservative”, they just do not have the same values or political views of “white Conservatives?”.
Seams i know more about Hispanic social views and values than you do!. By the way i got my satisics from a study done by the “Latina Caucus”.”
Out of context. Blah blah blah. What statistics post again. I give studies not only my opinion, unlike you.
You asked me to refer you to a dentist recently. If doing Dentistry is not that hard to do . Treat yourself. I agree Hispanics are conservative. We are not whacked out far right like you. You said not to trust the far right conservatives not conservatives.
“i will get you his full name and you can read bout his life and how he became a Doctor of Education. He turned the school around as did Steve Perry, by not allowing the students to use their skin colour or poverty, as an excuse for failure.”
Exactly by point. Yet you revert back to your generality of lack of parenting being the problem.
It is one of the problems in poverty communities. It is not THE problem. The same social problems occur where ever there is poverty in every part of the world and in isolated communities in every part of the world.
“Again you speak only crap. India is one of the poorest nations on earth. But parents in india, see education as a priority. Immigrants who come here from india do very well as do poor Asians. And that is a fact.
The true poor are living in africa, india, iraq, Mexico. What excuse can you give the hispanics who live in Orange County Doc??. I do not see any beggers in the streets. Wiseup!.”
For the most part immigrants from India and Asia are educated in their country and recruited by the USA government for our blue and white collar work force needs. You are comparing apples to oranges. You do point out the fact that what you see is the economic factor some of us point as the main factor in the question being argued.
Do you believe poor parenting is inherent only in Hispanic communities?
Do you believe it is a genetic trait Of Hispanics?
What research do you reference that concludes Hispanics do not hold education a priority? Don’t respond with it is my observation because then I can say it is my observation you are demented. I have no proof but neither do you.
“Then why dont you call John Ortega of Orange Unified and ask him why, he stated that “A childs quality of education is based on not only the school, but the parent too”.”
Generally speaking it is true. True when Excluding the pressures and hardships associated with poverty, language and prejudice. This is what I would tell John Ortega of Orange Unified.
Studies show 2nd generation and on Hispanics to even out with the rest of white America because the pressures and hardships associated with poverty, language and prejudice are irrelevant with greater assimilation. Studies show this occurring.
Your argument implies Hispanics have a culture of not wanting education. You have stated this many times even pointing out that your Hispanic neighbor told you so.
You and your neighbor are dead wrong and I will not let you continue this propaganda without a fight.