I am posting this one for Michelle and Marko in mind, because I get the impression that they are supporting the status quo. Rescission affects EVERYONE who has Health Care Insurance. NO ONE is free from the threat. You pay your premiums, you get sick or get injured and you get dropped from your insurance – and have to go it alone, financially.
80% of people who go bankrupt because of medical costs HAD INSURANCE when they were sick. Rescission is a good reason why we need complete reform going forward. I look forward to comments!
Thats one reason why I dislike the Baccus plan, I do not want to be mandated to buy insurance and then my insurance company drops me.
The Baccus plan prevents your insurance plan from dropping you, right now they can.
You are correct that you would be mandated to buy insurance.
The Baccus plan has it’s short coming, I think, but it is an improvement over the current system. It seems to be a lot like the Plan Governor Rommeny put in place.
So let me get this right. You are asked a series of questions, to base your coverage on…..Like, do you or did you smoke? You want the best price possible, so you say no, (but smoke 3 packs a day for 20 years)you get coverage and two years later develop lung cancer…. Are you telling me the insurance company does not have the right to see if you smoked before providing coverage?
Part 2 at the end it says 20,000 people have had their insurance company rescinded in the past 5 years by three companies… so that is about 1250 per company per year…. we have 320,000,000 people in this country (or so), using your numbers 40,000,000 have no coverage (B.S. Number, but I’ll use it) so we have 280,000,000 with coverage lets say half have public, or employer have coverage, 140,000,000 left Let cut that in half Again just for fun, so we are now at 70,000,000 the big 3 carry over 50% of those people, so we are at 30,000,000 covered by them or lets say 10,000,000 each. so if you have 10,000,000 and you rescing 1250 people in a year that is what?
.000125% of people….you have a better chance of getting killed in the hospital, than getting rescinded…See the Insurance companies are actually helping you out that way! (Note, this is a satire, I was making a point, all of you haters can just relax….ah go ahead, bring on the hate!
I do think that their should be Insurance reform. But it is more simple than over hauling the whole system to a disaster like National Health Care.
1. No state line limits for insurance companies.
2. Stop giving free health care to illegal Aliens. Start a guest worker program and have companies who hire foregin workers pay for their health insurance. Caloptima, healthy families should only go to American families who have lost their jobs or who may be in some sort of finanical crisis..ie. illness.
3. lower cost of Mal Pratice. Doctors can pay up to 1,000,000 for yearly, Mal Pratice Insurace.
4. Stop Insurace companies from dropping or not enrolling people just based on pre-existing conditions.
Do you know why the Public option is dead RV??. Because when Americans go to the Emergency room, they see it being used as a clinic by Foreginers, that simple. The American people know that if their is a pubic option they will have the same problem France is having with its hospitals.
This Country is not the greatest country on earth for nothing. The American people’s spirt and insightfulness to know what is best for them and their country, is what makes this country great. There are only a handful of liberals for a reason. Yes they are the ones with the money and the education. But the do not have the numbers to matter!.
I have to say, i am very proud of the American people right now, they have shown alot of guts:).
What I want to know about the Baccus plan is, if I have insurance now, will his plan cost me more money… through taxes or other ways.
Matt, there are a number of things that the Baucus plan will do that I disagree with. Taxing plans is a VERY bad idea, imo. Like Jim mentions, the insurance companies will not be allowed to drop you – which is an improvement for consumers.
However, much of the current criticism about the Max Baucus plan is that it is essentially a wish list of items for the insurance monopoly. Max gets THE MOST Health Care LOBBY MONEY out of all our representatives. He’s bought and paid for – more than any of his other peers. Please keep that in mind.
Lam – It’s good to be skeptical. I think it will be talked about a LOT this week – stay tuned!
Michelle and Marko, thanks for stopping by to comment. I know you two are passionate about this and I knew I could count on some thoughtful counter-arguments. Thanks- you deliver!
Marko, You are absolutely right – the insurance companies are lied to all the time by people. But did they do all they could to make sure they are getting accurate information from the consumer, or are they just treating the whole thing like a poison pill strategy: charge the premiums on the policy and if/when the person gets sick, do all you can to have them terminated from that policy by providing lots of incentives to your workers to get sick people off your books? In fact that is exactly what some companies have been doing: http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/17/business/fi-rescind17?pg=1
In November 2007, The Times reported that insurer Health Net Inc. paid bonuses to employees based in part on their involvement in rescinding policyholders. According to internal corporate documents disclosed through litigation, Health Net saved $35 million over six years by rescinding policyholders. The disclosures were part of the evidence that led a private arbitration judge to levy $9 million in damages against Health Net in a case involving the company’s rescission of a woman diagnosed with breast cancer.
At the time, Blue Cross told The Times that it did not link employee performance reviews to rescission levels
And a teen was just awarded 10 million dollars for being dropped for contracting HIV a full year after he had started purchasing health care insurance. You might be a big corporate advocate and will most times side with profit-driven business practices, but both Republican and Democratic lawmakers have called the rescission strategy inexcusable and shocking and must be stopped. (same link). Going broke because you get sick should not happen in the US, imo.
Michelle you have some very good ideas and I hope some of the best ones will be part of reform. BTW, the public option is NOT DEAD. In fact, Bill O’Reilly just came out and said he was for it – not for HIMSELF per se, but for working Americans. Here is a quick little video clip of him saying just that: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385×374166
The reason we have a new president that got the MAJORITY of the votes last November, was because the numbers have shifted. The GOP is the minority right now. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but all evidence suggests that the GOP has a lot of work to do to win back numbers. I am proud of American resilience and innovation, too. I know we are going to get this HC reform done right. We might need to tweak it a bit after it rolls out, but I am counting on our new president to get it RIGHT from the start.
I do think that their should be Insurance reform. But it is more simple than over hauling the whole system to a disaster like National Health Care.
1. No state line limits for insurance companies.
Most insurance compaies are currently nation wide, they charge different rates in different courites area and states depending on the local costs. Really there is no state lines, you could set a federal standard for plans and licences, which the states now do to aassure that all companies would be available in all states, but that would not address the rate issues unless you had a federal mandate that all rates would be the same for each policy in all areas.
2. Stop giving free health care to illegal Aliens. Start a guest worker program and have companies who hire foregin workers pay for their health insurance. Caloptima, healthy families should only go to American families who have lost their jobs or who may be in some sort of finanical crisis..ie. illness.
Sounds good, a 12 million-15 million guest worker plan, yea that will pass!!
3. lower cost of Mal Pratice. Doctors can pay up to 1,000,000 for yearly, Mal Pratice Insurace.
Agreed malpractice insurance reform is needed also.
4. Stop Insurace companies from dropping or not enrolling people just based on pre-existing conditions.
That seems to be agreed upon.
Do you know why the Public option is dead RV??. Because when Americans go to the Emergency room, they see it being used as a clinic by Foreginers, that simple. The American people know that if their is a pubic option they will have the same problem France is having with its hospitals.
The only solution to this is to include everyone regardless of documentation status in the insurance pool. Which is the the exact opposite of what is being proposed. IF you do not want uninsured foreginers in the ER then they have to be covered in any proposal.
What other solution is there? Perhaps(euthenasia) for those who show up without documentation or insurance.( Only Kidding)
Red, speaking of Bill Oreilly, recently I’ve found myself agreeing quite a bit with the two Bills, Bill O’reilly and Bill Maher.
Oreilly said something to the affect that “Obama’s plan to insure every American is admirable, but he won’t confront the issue of costs involved”
Maher said “Republicans are Assholes and Democrats are Pussies” (exact quote). Can’t argue with that. Obama had talked about his health plan for two years. It was discussed during the election and on practically every debate. Americans overwhelmingly voted for him and now with both houses on his side, Obama and the Dems practically beg for Republican approval on everything that he does.
Jim – thanks for addressing that point. I meant to point out that it would never be acceptable to have rotting bodies outside of a hospital just because the person got into this country illegally and was found himself on death’s doorstep.
The solution to illegal immigrants: SECURE THE DAMNED BORDERS. It’s time we figured out how to do that.
Lam,
O’Reilly is an intelligent man and I think he knows when to change hardlines when the evidence suggests that new facts should bring new conclusions. I watch Joe Scarborough during morning workouts and I have seen him say a LOT of things that I agree with – and he’s old school GOP. He’s “come around” quite a bit since before the elections, when he was a lot more hardline party line. This kind of flexible thinking/ critical analysis is nice to have around. I also like the Morning Joe show b/c there seems to be a decorum that calls for NO cutting other people off and no shouting and other distracting tactics that get in the way of solving issues.
The democrats and the republicans BOTH profit from leading the populace astray. These guy make up the RICHEST group of “representatives” this country has ever seen in its history. And, the democrats take up the top 7 spots of the top 9 “richest” roster. ONLY 2 republicans make the top 9 list.
We desperately need a two party system, but with all the wackadoos taking over the GOP, that two party system is hamstrung. I think sane folks like O’Reilly and Scarborough know that. It might take a lot more time, but hopefully the GOP can shed the nutters and protect/promote sane and traditionally conservative principles like innovation, hard work, fairness, foreign policy strategy and national pride. The democratic party has been so weak and squishy that it essentially got hijacked by progressives. I think there are nearly the same amount of lefty wackjobs that are pissed at the new president as there are on the righty wackjob contingent.
We got a newbie president who could use EVERYONE’s help on some pretty drastic situations that are going on right now, yet real “help” seems to absent, with drama, blame-shifting, distractions and self-serving legislation going on in its place.
If you didn’t see that Matt Taibbi piece I posted from the Rolling Stone, you might want to give it a read. IF Matt’s right then us taxpayers are in a screw the pooch position right now in the case of health care.
We need a ton of help for the economy, jobs, education and energy. The current mob of dopes deciding our fate in those arenas doesn’t really set well with me right now.
With regard to the issue of people witholding information on their insurance applications, can anyone POSSIBLY imagine what might motivate more and more people to do that over the years? Yeah, you’re right…it’s because people have become wise to the fact that insurance companies will deny you coverage based on the most innocent of pre-existing conditions. Went to the chiropractor a few times 10 years ago? Denied. Had tendonitis 5 years ago? Denied.
Now I ask you, which behaviour came first…the insurance company practices, or increased witholding of information on applications?
Holy cow, I’m agreeing with almost everything Michelle says. Almost :)))
“The solution to illegal immigrants: SECURE THE DAMNED BORDERS. It’s time we figured out how to do that.”
Red Vixen, we can never secure the borders. Land, air or sea… illegals will continue to come as long as we have something here they want. If we genuinely, truly want to stop illegal aliens, then the only way is to stop all benefits to them while they’re here. Then seriously, we wouldn’t have to worry about securing the borders, because they will go back on their own and will not return.
Think about this, you’re telling me I can’t come into the country. So the second I crossed the border, I broke the law. Every minute I’m here, it’s a crime in progress. You say I’m an illegal alien, BUT BUT BUT while I’m here, you’re going to give me insurance, health care, various forms of government assistance, driver’s licenses… and if I give birth, my child is automatically an American citizen. On top of that, if I’m ever caught, you’ll slap me on the wrist and send me back without any major penalty. Someone said in previous post to “don’t have the players, hate the game”. And that’s exactly the game our government is playing. No one is serious about stopping the flow of illegal aliens into the country.
What selling insurance across state lines REALLY means;
* Insurers could sell their products to Americans in any state.
*The insurer would have to follow the rules and regulations in the state where it is based-NOT the rules and regulations of the state where the consumer or the policy holder lives. This allows the insurance companies to “choose” what laws govern health insurance regulation.
*Premiums-health insurance premiums may DECREASE for the young, fit and healthy , people who are in low-risk categories will have their pick of insurance policies. Those in moderate to high-risk categories will probably see an INCREASE in premiums or may be priced out of health insurance altogether.
WHY? Because “risk” doesn’t decrease just because an individual can buy insurance anywhere in the country, insurance companies will be competing for the “healthy” because they are the most PROFITABLE.
*Benefit mandates-most benefit mandates would be ELIMINATED by an across state lines proposal. Selling health insurance across state lines would eliminate any guarantee that important benefit mandates like MATERNITY or EMERGENCY CARE would be included in insurance packages in the future. Again, insurance companies would try to entice the “healthy” with cheaper and less comprehensive insurance packages.
*Access to coverage-many people would find it more difficult to access health insurance if health insurance was sold across state lines. It’s more likely that there would be FEWER guaranteed issue policies (pre-existing condition) because insurers would have an INCREASED incentive to DENY people coverage and CHARGE MORE based on their health history. In other words, why fool around insuring the sick, when the money is made insuring the healthy.
What we really need is MEDICARE FOR ALL!
All health insurance companies do is PAY THE BILLS.
Medicare pays the bills too, but they do it at 4% overhead and insurance companies do it at 30% overhead.
Furthermore Medicare is INSURING the elderly, the SICKEST and MOST COSTLY group to insure, the government has taken those folks off-the-table and the private insurance companies STILL CAN’T KEEP COSTS DOWN.
Just think if Medicare had all those healthy and cheap to insure 20 and 30 year olds paying into the system, Medicare would be solvent and everyone would have BASIC health care.
Everyone would still be able to purchase private health insurance for additional and premium coverage just like seniors do now, (like my folks, they’re on Medicare but also pay extra for BlueCross).
Medicare for all is the best and most cost effective solution.
I enjoy this thread, good discussion and great points from all.
I wish we can see real honest discussion and debate on this issue from the politicians. I won’t hold my breath!!
click on howard dean’s assessment of the Baucus bill, which he claims is a 60 billion dollar give-away. He claims that it is an unfunded mandate and will not work and is not reform.
He is also predicting a PUBLIC OPTION and is betting the interviewer a dinner when it happens: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32925389#32915611
I think that all readers of this thread would do well to read carefully what anonster has written. They understand this HC issue.
Medicare for ALL would actually be the optimum program. It’s already been a success. Expanding it would simplify the process. That’s where this needs to head.
Illegals are a constant problem. They show up at hospitals and clinics. If there here, they’re going to show up at whatever health care option we decide on. Sorry, ILLEGALS are not going to be the big distraction for me. We need health care reform for our CITIZENS. The discussions need to progress until we get this RIGHT for US.