Former Mission Viejo Mayor, Susan Withrow is a big fan of recall candidate Dave Leckness
Earlier today I met with our City Clerk and copied the list of names on both Mission Viejo RECALL candidate Dave Leckness and Dale Tyler’s Nomination Papers. I also copied the 50 plus names that appeared on the Feb 5th Notice of Intent to Circulate Recall Petition to see which of those signers appear in either of the Nominating Papers.
At this point I need to take us back to my Nov. 9th interview of candidate Dave Leckness in which he mentioned some of the people he has been talking to and one of the signers of his Nominating Papers who told him he might not wish to use her name in promoting himself.
I can now confirm that person to be former Mission Viejo Mayor Susan Withrow who appears first on Dave’s Nominating Papers.
Yes, this is our former Mayor Susan Withrow whom we kicked out of office in the Nov 2002 election. In his November 10, 2002 column regarding the election outcome former Register senior editorial writer and columnist Steven Greenhut labeled this “The Revolution in Mission Viejo.”
To indicate how much clout Susan has in our city one only needs to reflect back to the 1998 race when she was mayor after three prior council victories and, along with her close friend vice mayor Sherri Butterfield, was trounced in 2002. In her 1998 victory Susan had 13,479 votes yet four years later, as our sitting mayor, was only able to get 4,781 votes.
Another signer of Dave’s Nominating Papers, whose signature appears in the fourth spot, is former Mayor Sherri Butterfield who was a candidate for reelection as our vice mayor in the 2002 election. After victories in 1994 and again in 1998, where Sherri finished first with 13,591 votes, she too was trounced in the 2002 election by getting only 5,487 votes.
Readers might recall her involvement in the Laguna Beach Pageant of the Masters upheaval when there was a controversy regarding a 2000 proposal to move the popular event to San Clemente.
Both of these ladies have something in common. Intimidation. They, along with Bill Craycraft, were found guilty in a 2000 Closed Session Brown Act violation lawsuit involving councilman John Paul Ledesma. As a result of that violation they were forced by the courts to audio tape every Closed Session meeting for a period of two years.
On August 10th 2000 the MV Committee for Integrity in Government, CIG, issued the following: “The MV CIG is calling for the resignation of Mayor Sherri Butterfield following the personal attack from city hall on Wednesday aimed at Orange County Superior Court Judge Eileen Moore. On Tuesday Judge Moore found Mayor Butterfield and Council Members Withrow and Craycraft guilty of violating several elements of the California Open Meeting Law, also known as the Brown Act.”
In the closing comments of that CIG letter it reads:
The committee says the verdict confirms a major breach of public trust by the Mayor and two colleagues, and further highlights a sickness at city hall typified by secrecy, misrepresentations, arrogance and an anti-voter attitude.”
I have a copy of an August 9, 2000 letter issued on Mission Viejo City manager Dan Joseph’s stationary that includes the following commentary from Mayor Butterfield.
“Mayor Butterfield said, “From the outset of the two-day trial, the judge appeared to be both ill and unprepared. Apparently, she had not read the briefs filed by the attorneys and was unfamiliar with the Brown Act and with other relevant Government Code Sections. Her terse ruling, in which no case law is cited, relies on misstated testimony and mischaracterized facts, thereby providing ample reason for the city of Mission Viejo to file an immediate appeal.”
Folks. You typically want to obtain signatures on your Nominating Papers from highly respected members of the community who can enhance your acceptance by the electorate. That is why Susan warned Dave about even using her name in his campaign.
Let me also point out that in addition to city council meetings I try to attend our community events whenever we are in town. Ever since the Nov 2002 election both Susan and Sherri have been MIA. Neither of them attend our Walk Against Drugs or Veterans Day ceremonies. As such their ability to help Dave is somewhat limited, especially when he told me that since January of this year he doesn’t even get a daily newspaper because he was tired of reading all the negative stories. Although Dave served on our Planning Commission, I have never seen him in attendance at any of our city council meetings which might explain his lack of knowledge on current and recent city issues.
Another comment from Dave’s Nov 10th email that opened saying “Hi Larry, good interview,” was his comment that “I will get the facts on the questions you asked that I need to make decisions on.”
Folks. If this was truly Dave’s idea to run he had plenty of time researching the issues while the recall volunteers were gathering signatures to prepare for an interview, not after a reporter ‘s interview. Sadly Dave said he didn’t even know what the recall charges were yet became a recall election candidate?
Another of the signers, third on Dave’s list, was former Mayor Sharon Cody. Sharon recently issued a hate filled email blast against several Mission Viejo watchdogs including myself. No problem. I refuted her wild accusations and move on.
Daniel Avery, a supporter of Lance MacLean, who has attacked my Juice blog stories, was the second signature on Dave’s
papers. I guess even Dan feels that Lance’s days are numbered and is abondoning Lance’s ship even before Thanksgiving.
This recall campaign will not be pretty.
The real issue goes beyond dollars and cents. It’s about Intimidation and violence.
Dan Avery was posturing in his comments to Part 1 of this story, acting like he doesn’t know Marion Butterfield. HAH! Just refer to him as Lyin’ Dan Avery from now on. Hey, Marion, that’s not very flattering when your friends won’t admit they know you!
The two old women (Susan and Sherri)withdrew from public events after their humiliating loss in 2002 when the entire city was sick of them. Are they STILL smarting from their loss?
This might be a boring recall because MacLean is going to be dumped pretty easily, but fun to have the old girls back. With Leckness as their wind-up toy, it will be quite a circus.
Actually, Larry, I’m not a supporter of Lance Maclean; I don’t know him and know nothing about his politics except that he bills himself as a conservative so I’d never vote for him. But I am willing to help anyone who is the victim of a “recall.” The recall law in this state is amazingly dangerous because, as you so well know, the target didn’t have to do anything. You simply couldn’t get Lance to do your bidding so now you want to recall him before Ledesma terms out in November. Otherwise, why would you support such an amazingly stupid use of tax dollars? As you point out the council can’t do much between March and November, so what is the point Larry? I would work to help Lance because I’m a patriot and believe in our elective system. It’s a moral issue for me because I love the American system and way of life. It’s a thing of beauty this system of ours where a devote liberal like myself will help a conservative like Lance because it’s the morally correct thing to do.
You should ask yourself, what you have going for you. The moral high ground? You’ve never even been close. Mayor Butterfield had to read a letter from the Mission Viejo Rotary Club stating you were not allowed to speak for the club; she had to read it in an open session of the city council to get you to do the right thing. I’m sure she found it rather distasteful, but what was she to do? That, as near as I can tell, was as close to the moral high ground you’ve ever come. You are completely transparent Larry, and not very intelligent.
Now see that last paragraph was an attack Larry. I stooped to it, as distasteful as I found it, because I want you to understand the difference between an “attack on my Juice blog stories” and when I simply point out your overly simplistic and faulty logic.
By the way, interesting choice of words that “stories.” As we all know stories are something we make up; the work of fiction; in other words lies. Reports on the other hand…
Vaya Con Dios!
Dan.
You start out saying you wish to help the victim. Whom are you referring to ? The man who Lance was chocking at UCI? That’s the problem. Lance is a victim, if that’s the word to use, for his own conduct.
Lance promoted a tax increase in Mission Viejo, Measure K, while he continues to boast that we have more money in reserves than many other OC cities. So for the watchdogs to call him on that broken campaign promise, as found in his 2002 Candidate Statement read by every voter who cast their ballot for him, you still feel he is a victim?
We need to agree on what the correct definition of a “victim” is before we can continue this exchange.
Get him to do my bidding? No!!! Go back to the Measure K comment above. That wasn’t my bidding nor my Campaign Statement received by our 50,000 registered voters. That my friend is an outright slap in the face of everyone who trusted him in 2002.
Rotary Club letter. Obviously you are being fed some inside stuff and are not a stranger to our city yet claim not to know Lance. My addressing the city council as a member of the Rotary Club was out of frustration caused by Sherri Butterfied’s taking “months to proof read donor names” delaying installation of plaques recognizing our donations to the library. And I thought I kept records.
Folks they have to dig all the way back around 10 years to attack me on that point but I also keep documents.
Let me read a letter from the Sec of the Rotary Club of Mission Viejo dated Sept 27, 1999.
“Dear Larry:
It is with sincere regret that we accept your resignation from the Mission Vieio Rotary Club.
Your contribution to our club during your membership has been an asset and your presence will be missed. We hope that you will consider returning in the future.
We wish you the best in your new endeavors.”
I have attended later meetings as a guest speaker and that offer to return is still on the table.
Mr. Avery. You simply don’t get it. This post is not about me.
It’s about Dave Leckness and his becoming a candidate to replace Lance MacLean.
Do you really think your personal attack on me and my stories helps your candidate?
Vaya Con Dios to you as well.
Please close the door behind you as you leave this story.
actually Go Hawks I didn’t realize Marion Butterfield was the “marion” you spoke of, but that makes sense. I met him twice and he struck me as the sort of man who would take responsibility for his own words by using his actual name. Odd your parents named you Go Hawks. Bet you got the crap beat out of you in school. Or are you simply hiding because you’re afraid, or because you’re really Larry Gilbert. Be just like Larry to invent a bunch of hotmail addresses and slick “net” names to make it look like he actually had a bunch of followers. 🙂
Dan Avery. Go away. Ask Editor Art Pedroza if I use any bogus names on my stories or comments. I do not hide who I am nor what I believe in.
Well, well, well, the Wicked Witches of the West have reemerged in all their viperous glory.
Not only did they attempt to trample the law but between the “S Cubed” girls they looted the city treasury for their own personal glorification. They all three make big fat targets–hurrahhhh.
After reading Dave’s interview, I said he’s toast. Now that I see he is Butterfield and Withrow’s boy, I’ll have to alter my opinion. Dave is burned toast.
Ahahahahah! I love it, the Mission Viejo Mafia’s scheme is about to explode in their faces! If there is any justice in this world, you people will replace Lance with an even bigger douchebag. You reap what you sow, Larry.
Susan Withrow, Sherri Butterfield and Sharon Cody = three tons of baggage. To this day, Mission Viejo residents cannot stand these women.
According to Butterfield and Withrow’s own survey (three weekends ago), they know Lance is going to lose. Leckness may have had a slim chance, but they didn’t ask voters the most important question: If Butterfield and Withrow are associated with Leckness, will he be blown out of the water? YES! Ka-BOOM!
Hey Larry, I do respect that you man up and use your own name on here. That takes courage. Unlike most of your supporters from what little I’ve seen. I hang out at Open Salon and only wandered by because I happen to think Dave is a good guy that doesn’t have a mean bone in his body. He doesn’t deserve to be trashed the way you seem to want to trash him.
Like I said, I know nothing about Lance. I’m not sure what “chocking” as you call it is, but I do know it is pathetically easy to terrify academics. I also know, because I hung out in academia for 18 years, that the politics on a campus are much nastier and petty than anywhere else because there is so little at stake. Here’s what I do know. We have a republic where we elect representatives and you’re trying to circumvent that for whatever reason. The reason is irrelevant because what you’re doing is wrong. It may very well be legal, but it’s as wrong as a white only lunch counter.
Say, rather than constantly running down the city, did you see we are the safest city in California and the third safest nationwide? Pretty damn cool if you ask me. Doesn’t your buddy Dale want to cut funding to the sheriffs and the school resource officers? I guess he feels we don’t need them? That safety and low crime isn’t an issue?
By the way, Larry, I wouldn’t call Dave my candidate. He’s his own guy and you know that. I have gotten to know him over the years through my wife’s involvement in the Rotary Club. You know going down to Mexico to give eye exams to orphans at Christmas time; events like that. I now he’s a devoted husband and father and really enjoys the fact that Mission Viejo has been a safe beautiful place to raise his kids. Last time we were down at the orphanage he and I had a long talk about that. He’s a nice guy and has a great sense of humor. I know he’ll work hard to keep the city safe by not cutting the money to OC Sheriffs and to the School Resource Officers. I know it’s hard to understand just how much youth is at risk these days, even in a place as beautiful as Mission Viejo. Well, you might get it because you raised a step-daughter I believe, but Dale…He’s never been married and raised a family I hear, odd to find someone his age still a bachelor. Funny he wants to run for office in a family community like Mission Viejo. He probably can’t relate to 97% of the people living here.
Say, I’ve been reading Dale’s candidate statement and I’m a little confused. What is he for? I mean he seems to be against the library, the rec centers, the tennis center…anything really that is a positive outlet for the city’s kids after school. He seems to want to cut funding to the police and fire departments, stop all the planting around town so the hills are barren and ugly, and cut funding to the senior center. That last one shows poor judgement for anyone who wants to have a future in politics. Seniors vote. I bet they like their senior center. I bet it helps them keep active and really adds to the quality of their lives. Dale even seems to hate dogs.
See that’s why I’m really involved Larry. It doesn’t have much to do with Dave at all. You and Dale messed with the dog park. I have a dog. His name is Hunter and he’s extremely bright. And when my multiple scelrosis has me down, Hunter puts a smile back onto my face. Watching him run across a field is a truly wonderous moment. If there is indeed a God all we can say for sure is that She loves to watch the beauty of natural life.
This has been a tough year with my M.S. A lot of fatigue and depression. You should never have messed with the dog park, Larry. Hunter truly deserves to have a field where he can run and no one will hassle him. Sort of like when the kids in this town play little league and such. I’m going to make sure Hunter gets that field. I am going to be around like that bad smell from the Oso reservoir, pointing out all your logical flaws, and it’s already gotten quite boring for me because it’s so easy, until you pack your bags and move to Hayden Lake or where ever it is you fascists go when you finally turn tail and run.
Vaya con perros Larry.
First time email response from a long time Mission Viejo resident.
“Larry,
Thanks so much for the recall, no pun intended, of all that was the 3 stooges. I had forgotten a lot of it. You do a great service with you research abilities and search for the truth.”
Dan Avery.
I now get the connection. Perhaps you might ask the current members of the MV Rotary club of my prior membership and service. You and I have met at a Rotary function.
Having been an active member for five years I am very familiar with the great work of Rotary International and our local involvement around the globe. You are missing the point of this recall election story.
The key, as you confirm by acknowledging our public safety record, relates to councill member intimidation and violence that many of us simply do not accept. It took four policemen to get Lance to the ground and handcuff him at a UCI event. You don’t resign from a great management post at a well known University after 27 years with a plan to enter a new profession and are unemployed for an entire year when you have a family to support. Even Lance admitted his track record making it tough for him to get a new job. It’s OK for the University to ask him to step down but we do not have the same option?
Susan, Sherri and Bill were found guilty of intimidating newly elected councilman John Paul Ledesma in a Closed Session meeting which resulted in a lawsuit being filed against the city and the council being found guilty as charged by a Superior Court Judge. Susan and Sherri were not the best supporters for Dave to have chosen. Even Dave repeated Susan’s warning that he should consider the risk of using her name in his campaign.
Lance has had two other anger management issues that I can confirm. One with another council member and a a second with a challenger in the 2006 election that resulted in a 9-11 call for police assistance by this female.
You can see a photo of Lance leaning on a railing near La Paz and Marguerite with a few police cars in that picture found on the Mission Viejo Dispatch blog.
Dan. Have you interviewed Dale Tyler? I have placed a call to him and am awaiting his call back. Are you basing all of your remarks on the “hit piece” that was sent out last Friday? Is that engaging in “due diligence” on your part?
Show me where Dale Tyler said anything in the press or at a city council meeting confirming all of the charges you are repeating on this post.
I have a copy of Dale’s Candidate Statement that I downloaded from the city website. It includes the following text:
“As a councilman in Mission Viejo I would:
Eliminate council members’ lifetime medical benefits
Roll back recent doubling of council members’ pay
Require city budgets to be balanced every year.”
In his opening paragraph it reads. “A Mission Viejo resident since 1987, I’ve been passionate about improving city government and stopping wasteful spending for my entire adult life. As chairman of Concerned Mission Viejo Taxpayers, I’ve opposed such wasteful spending as the $400,00 Rose Parade float and a $500,000 toilet in a city park.”
Note: Juice readers are familiar with my reporting on each of these CIP’s in prior posts.
Note: My fingerprints are not on either of the candidate’s Statement of Qualifications.
Folks. Dan’s response confirms the problem of becoming a candidate for elected office. Whether or not the allegations are true you end up wasting time and money fighting off bogus charges rather than focusing on what you see as problems and your suggested solutions. It reminds me of the recent assembly race between Chris Norby and Linda Ackerman in the 72nd AD where all we saw were attacks against Chris rather than a real debate of State issues.
This is politics 21st century.
Now you know why many well qualified people are turned off by the system and elect not to enter the arena.
Dan. Thank you for reminding me of my family. However, with regards to Dale Tyler, we are only looking to elect one person not a family. Are you expressing some form of prejucide based on your comments about Dale Tyler’s marital status?
Many of us supported John Paul Ledesma who did not get married until years after being elected to our city council in 1998.
Dan. Please, do your homework before attacking me. Perhaps you might ask our city manager if he and I didn’t exchange emails, which have been posted on this blog, of my concern for his cutting over one million dollars in the Budget from maintaining our slopes and medians.
Folks. I am giving Dan a lot of slack as he is new to the Juice. This post was never intended to become a testimonial or roast of Larry Gilbert yet Dan is attacking me. Perhaps I should bring both of my million dollar Cavaliers to this mornings Rotary Club meeting for show and tell. They have cost us a fortune in surgery and other medical bills but we love both of them.
Dan. Where do you come off saying that I oppose a dog park. The council just acknowledged that the Norman P Murray Center was not the best potential location.
Folks. This will be my final response to Dan if he continues to take this thread away from the post content debate. Sorry for having to spend so much time and text space in responding but I do not walk away from any fight.
As to Dan Avery your gullibility is astounding–do your homework–your certainly old enough. And Dan –the issue is Lance MacLean and his lack of self control and inflicting his physical self on others–get it–he grabbed a fellow employee by the neck and was chocking him. Read the police report Dan.
Susan, Sherri, and Sharon have done enough damage to our city!!!
Do we need more of their duplicitous actions ??
Butterfield delayed the publishing of the Mission Viejo history book for 5 years—because she was the “master editor” and great procrastinator. She attempted to rewrite history through her own self centered eyes and deceive the community. Finally when she was booted out of office the project was wrestled away from her. !!!Enough said!!!
Dave has picked the very worst of characters in Mission Viejo to support him—-and remember “YOU ARE WHO YOU RUN WITH”. So this means intimidation, cover ups, and self aggrandizement. (Sherri with the Lake, Susan denying traffic problems, and Sharon looting the reserves for her PET projects )
First, put Dan on ignore. Not only is he an insufferable gasbag, I agree with the observation someone made earlier that he is a liar. His drivel is just annoying.
Second, having Butterfield, Withrow and Cody in Dave Leckness’s campaign shows that he is a gullible person who lacks good judgment. If he doesn’t know enough to stay away from them, the voters certainly will tell him on election day.
James K. Polk is correct. Stay on Topic.
Folks. When you pass 70 you get a break on memory tests. I have actually been in Dan Avery’s home at the invitation of his wife Virginia for a Rotary Club party.
We are in the process of verifying an interesting development in the Leckness Nomination papers that I will add hopefully later today. Stay tuned.
Other than discovering that Dave is a registered Democrat and Dale is a registered Republican in this non-partisan race, we verifed some data this morning and have nothing new to add at this time.
larry, I am a little disappointed in your 2 part story. It does kind off seem like the posts are one sided. If you need signatures, then I would assume you would try to get them from people you know that live in the city just to meet the requirements. I could be wrong. Does it really matter who signs it?
I have a couple questions as you have seemed to be honest with your replies. By reading other posts that have all been related to this discussion of a recall and new canidates it has sparked my interest. Don’t get defensive as these are legitimate questions and I would like to make to get myself more informed. They are not intended to be attacks in anyway.
1) Do you really think a lot of decisions that are important to the city could be made before the November election?
2) I ask because is it worth the $250,000 it costs for the recall? Do you feel it is worth it?
3)Is there a small group pushing for a recall so they can have their way on the counsil?
4)It seems you feel Dale Tyler is more qualified then Dave, Why?
5)Are any of Lances statements of rebutal of his recall have any validity?
Anyways it definately seems like this subject gets the most comments. Has Dale done an interview with you yet? Looking forward to it.
Paulie Shore.
Before I forget, have a safe and Happy Thanksgiving.
Let’s see. For starters Dale Tyler has not responded to my calls so while I know some of Dale’s earlier policy positions, dating back over 5 years, I cannot provide a current comparrison between the two candidates. That said let me try to respond.
Need signatures? For what? Over 14,000 MV voters signed the petition. That effort far exceeded the required number. Let me repeat. Conduct a DNA test. Except for the one I signed you will not find my fingerprints on the recall petitions. Please don’t credit me for something accomplished by others in our city.
Question #1. Not knowing what the staff and individual council members might add to any agenda that would be pure speculation on my part.
Question #2. As to the cost of the recall. Folks. We can debate this one all day. The bottom line is that an election has been called for Feb 2nd. Aside from blocking Lance from giving away over $1.5 million a few years ago to an auto dealership our city treasurer has stated that the cost of lifetime healthcare for our part time council members, as voted on by Lance, would be $270,000. Several people have heard that number. In fact John Paul Ledesma questioned the City Treasurer on that figure at a council meeting. With over 90% of incumbents getting reelected chances are very good that Lance would have access to that benefit.
#3. I love this question. Get control of the council? Have you been watching or attending our council meetings? Cathy Schlicht has been in more 1-4 votes than any council member in the 20 year history of our city. She is her own person and is not in lock step with ANY other council member. There was one issue when she could not even get John Paul Ledesma to second a Motion. Taking this debate a step further. John Paul is termed out this year. Do you know who will take his place? If so, I need to meet you and take your crystal ball to Vegas. What is sad is that there are so many gullible people who get an email with allegations and plain out BS yet fail to do their homework. “Trust, But Verify” is every voter’s responsibility.
Small group? Over 50 Mission Viejo voters signed the original recall application. What you do consider to be a small group? More of the Lance supporters nonsense.
#4. Based on my Nov 9th interview with Dave, as well as my personal contact with him over the past 15 years, I continue to be angry. Dave and I have been friends. In addition to printing my own campaign literature, as well as several others whom I have sent his direction, Dave simply is not prepared to jump on this train.
He knew I called to interview him yet wasn’t prepared to answer a single question. In his thank you email he says he will START looking into the issues. I will bet the farm that he was urged to run as an insurance policy in case Lance is recalled.
I’ve made a copy of every signer of Dave’s Declaration.
Not a single currently serving council member or planning commissioner, investment avisory commissioner or community services commissioner has put their hand on his Nominating Papers. Why? When I ran in 1994 I wanted to get positive high profile people, such as our first mayor Norm Murray, to sign my document so that voters who didn’t know me would consider my candidacy based on the names on that document that is a public record. What about all the commissioners who served alongside Dave that still live in our city?
Prior to interviewing Dale I am comfortable stating that he has a leg up on Dave in that he was active in the election of several current members including Trish Kelley and John Paul Ledesma.
Are you surprised to see Trish named? We were in front of Dale’s house in the fall of 2002 splitting boards from Trish’s deck to be used as yard signs stakes. Don’t believe me? Ask her and her husband Jack.
Dale was also supporting other candidates who lost in their bid to unseat incumbents. As such he was, and is, well versed on the city issues including our finances, a topic I felt would be unfair to ask Dave based on his lack of knowledge on simple questions such as whether or not he was familiar with the recall charges yet was a recall candidate. In January over 11,000 petition signatures were submitted to the City Clerk on a Right To Vote Initiative that has qualified for a future ballot yet Dave had no clue as to what is was.
#5.& close. Lance’s Statements of rebuttal. Hang loose.
I have someone in the dirveaway tkaing me to Bagels and Brew. As soon as I return I shall complete this lengthy response to your detailed list of questions. Larry
thanks larry, the signatures I was talking about wasn’t recall signatures, i meant the required signatures to apply for a counsil position. Sorry. Happy thanksgiving to you and your family as well. Thanks for the responses.
Paulie.
Some local businesses are thriving. Standing room only at Bagels and Brew and every table was occupied.
Back to your questions.
Each candidate submitted 30 signatures of voter registered Mission Viejo residents. I spoke to our City Clerk yesterday to ask if any were thrown out. Karen replied that the ROV starts verification and once she confirms 21 they stop the process. Each of the two recall candidates have jumped over that hurdle without tripping.
Back to your earlier question #5.
Lance’s official response. “The City of Mission Viejo Special/Recall Election February 2, 2010 STATEMENT OF REASONS FOR THE PROPOSED RECALL OF LANCE MACLEAN” is in my hands as my fingers hit this keyboard.
It opens stating “The grounds for the recall are as follows:”
The very first line reads “VIOLENCE when you were arrested by Police for assault and battery on a co-worker.”
The next lines open with words such as “ANGER AND INCIVILITY, HATRED AND DISRESPECT” etc yet Lance does not address ANY of these charges in his reply.
Folks. The primary justification for this recall is our stance on public safety as we deal with VIOLENCE and INTIMIDATION by an elected member of our city council.
For some reason no one questions his being dismissed by UCI yet they have a problem with Mission Viejo voters taking the same initiative?
Part of his response is that he is making charges against what he labels as “a small faction of political malcontents” yet fails to name names. Worse than that, unlike my direct response to every one of your questions, he shifts the focus to waste valuable words by writing:
“This self-serving group wants to open a seat on the City Council and insert their hand-picked candidate so they will have a majority to control our city.”
Folks. While the volunteers were collecting recall petition signatures months ago, until Nov 19th we did not know the names of the qualified recall candidates. As such how would the 14,000 who signed the petition know who the possible replacement candidate might be? There were several who asked me to run. In fact, someone paid a pretty sum to poll residents in which my name was included as a potential candidate. Therefore the voters did not know who would eventually enter the arena.
Let me repeat a prior response. Aside from Cathy Schlicht being aligned with no one on our city council, John Paul Ledesma is NOT up for reelection in Nov. He is termed out.
Long before entering grammer school I was taught how to count to three.
With a five member council two members cannot control anything but requesting a potty break during council meetings.
Can anyone reading this post tell me today who will be taking John Paul Ledesma’s seat on our council?
Voters with half a brain should see through this lame attempt of making the “council control” argument.
Paulie. The above “half a brain” comment applies to my “Mission Viejo friends? who read this post and take pot shots at me every day, not yourself.”
Withrow, Cody and Butterfield signing Dave’s nomination paper was a dumb mistake. Butterfield wrote the hit piece, and her signature on the nomination paper directly ties her to Dave. Dave has become entangled with these angry old broads who don’t care that he will be destroyed in the process. Wake up, Dave.
I have a friend with inside information about the old broads, and they think they’re pretty clever. Did Leckness write his ballot statement? Of course not! Maybe he doesn’t know who wrote it, but he knows he didn’t. Just ask him who wrote it and see what he says.
Diablo Dad.
It will be very interesting to watch Dale and Dave if they are given a chance to debate prior to the election. Unlike earlier candidate forums I would not allow either of them to have any cheat sheets to refer to so that we can determine if they truly know their stuff.
Juice readers who have been waiting for my interview of candidate Dale Tyler. We have just exchanged emails and will shortly be getting together for me to interview him on Mission Viejo issues. Stay tuned.
Anxious to see / read your interview with Dale. NOT REALLY SINCE WE ALL KNOW WHERE YOU STAND WITH THAT CANDIDATE!!! Unfortunately, a bias interview will be given with the questions known ahead of time because of your very informative blog telling us all about your questions. The nice thing about MacLean is that he is willing to stand up against your group of friends / watchdogs. Too bad your group can’t do it the old fashion way our democratic system was initially setup whereas when you don’t like a candidate, you vote that person out of office at the proper election. It’s groups like yours that cost this city lots of money for your childish games and keeps good people away from running for office.
It was nice to see signs already up off the freeway saying “NO TO THE RECALL” (By the way, that will be the first question on the ballot. Not should we have a recall special election.)
larry, i think you should interview lance. That would be a very interesting post. If you have allready, can you post the link to the story. I bet Lance would be willing to answer your questions. Im sure he would make himself evailable at this point. He has nothing to lose. plus I think it gives your readers an unbias opion as long as nothing is edit or omitted. He seems like he should get a chance to give his side of why he shouldnt be recalled.
Get real–Get a life.
Recall candidate Dale Tyler has agreed to meet with me later this week for an interview. As of now you will simply have to wait like everyone else to see how he responds to my questions.
Do you live in CA or some foreign land? Did you vote in the recall of former governor Davis or perhaps our Supreme Court Chief Justice Rose Bird?
Recall is part of our Constitution you well informed reader of that document.
Thanks for all the power you have given me. My group.
What, the Republican Party? Yes, I once served as the Mission Viejo Team Captain for the OCGOP GOTV effort. Is that the team you are referring to?
Or perhaps the former CIG which ended about four or five years ago. I do not have any group. And lastly I was termed out of office after serving four years as president of the Saddleback Republican Assembly several years ago. Help me out here genius and define that group that you keep referring to.
Yes, I actually do belong to a group. The Orange Juice family that permits you to attack one of us on our blog. You see we do believe in freedom of expression with one caveat. We will not tolerate personal attacks and your off thread comments are starting to move closer to our delete key.
Paulie Shore.
Have you been watching our city council meetings?
Watch Mayor Ury as he allows Lance to abuse his council position to attack the allegations of the recall petitioners while selectively avoiding any response to his violent and intimidation actions? And while we have 3 minutes of public comments to address an infinite range of topics Lance rambles on for up to 10 minutes using taxpayer time and money defending himself without being told to cease that abuse of power.
When council member Schlicht recently asked the mayor to cut him off Frank said he was granting that time which I believe was to allow Lance to vent at that single meeting. Nothing stops him from using the public airways as attendees in our chambers await debate on regular city business.
No. I have no desire to interview Lance. He has already been given a chance to defend himself against every charge in the petition and shifts the debate as confirmed by his recall Rebuttal. Anyone can see or download that document from our city web site.
Paulie I take offense to your allegations of possible editing or omission of facts in any of the interviews that I conduct and post.
Unbiased opinion. Somehow Dave Leckness felt that my publishing of his interview was quite accurate. If you doubt that remark simply call him. Kwik Kopy printing is in the book. Dave surely has more in the game than yourself.
And to your last sentence.
Folks. Lance surely had an opportunity to challenge the recall petition. Every Mission Viejo registered voter will receive that input in their Feb 2nd “special” election ballot that will be sent to around 50,000 voters. If anyone wants to hear his side of the debate they only have to open their snail mail.
If you are a registered voter in Mission Viejo ask yourself one question. After reading the charges decide whether or not he answers the listed charges or goes off on a tangent without providing any answers starting with his being handcuffed by 4 police at UCI while choking a fellow Director.
I fall back to the Rotary 4 Way Test where the first question reads: “Is it the truth.”
Lance refuses to address that very first recall charge because he can’t defend himself.
Spencer K of OC Weekly had an in-depth report on that episode a few months ago. If you need the actual date simply let me know and I will provide it.
Closing comment. In reading my posts about the upcoming recall election some readers might think that I was either one of the candidates, a campaign manager or one of the organizers of this local recall endeavor, none of which passes the first Rotary test.
None of it is true. At times I feel like former Register editorial writer Steve Greenhut getting attacked for providing these free local news posts while anonymous readers engage in personal attacks against the messenger.
Hey, MacLean (posting as Get Real). Is it true that the phone survey showed you’re going to lose? Why are you bothering to put up signs? By the way, it is annoying to see your signs. We are celebrating Thanksgiving and enjoying this time with our families and helping the less fortunate. You are out there putting up your pitiful signs, trying to save your sorry butt. Donate the money to charity.
Just in case Sherri reads this blog, do you understand what voters told you in 2002? The trouncing you got was a message that we are tired of you.
Did anyone find out who actually paid for the phone survey? Is everyone just making accusations or just guessing? Does your group or followers have the hard facts? Danielle – do you have the actual results from the phone survey? Does anybody associated with this blog or defends/supporters of Dale really have the actual results or are you all just guessing and pointing fingers…as usual?
Happy “Dale” Day!
Get REAL Get a life
Look whose talking. Hello. Check your calendar. Today is Thanksgiving, a day to acknowledge all of our blessings, including taking a day off from answering comments.
Do all of us a favor and simply go away or perhaps I may help you.
Get REAL–Get A LIFE!!, Danielle4MV and Paulie Shore.
As we await our dinner guests let me notify each of you that any future comments on this post or any of my other posts that are not germane to the topic will be deleted.
Other Juice readers look forward to the debate, but not on topics such as who paid for a survey or other irrelevant side bars.
hey larry, I read your post, sorry sometimes when things are written down they must come off wrong. I never accused you of deleting anything or ommitting anything. I would like an interview of lance from you because I know you wont beat around the bush. I know you get attacked by a few people on here, but dont but me in that catagory. My post to you have always been legitimate questions. If anything I am on yourside more often than not. If you reread what I said it says it would give people a fair opinion as long as nothing is ommitted. i never once accused you of doing that. It was a statement only.
All I asked was you to interview him. Not to make him look better. I would like to see how he handles your questions. Sometimes you need to chill. You get defensive alot. I never attacked you, made an acusation, or insulted you. I have eatch counsil meetings. Thats not what I asked. I’m not giving you a forum for him to defend himself, I think you should interview him. It would make for a good post and you would get a lot of responses. Look at all my posts, I never attacked you or accused you of anything or have I taken sides. Relax buddy, it holiday time. You can respond by just saying I dont want to interview him. You dont need to attack me.
Good afternoon Paulie.
Without going back to all the recent comments on my stories I will apologize to you by accusing your questioning that I engage in selective inclussion or exclusion of interview details.
As stated previously my goal is to interview all the candidates in the Mission Viejo recall election. As it turns out only 2 of the potential 4 completed processing the required documentation.
Having interviewed Dave Leckness I have a date to interview Dale Tyler which will be my next post on this recall election.
Lance is not a recall candidate. While he has the final say at our city council meetings, and uses that power to paint one side of the truth at every opportunity instead of focusing on the people’s business, I will not give him any ink on the Juice.
My plan is to provide a point by point response to his reply after the Tyler interview.
Think about your request for a moment. Without your being in the same room when I conduct these interviews you would not be able ” to see how he handles your questions.” As such I could not win. Someone would surely say that I was biased in reporting his answers.
And yes, after all the turkey and deserts yesterday I surely did chill today.
I understand larry, I guess I would like to see you question him. To bad you couldnt do it and put it on “you tube”. You have to admit that would be comical, assuming he didnt choke you out if he didnt like your questions? 🙂 I just suggested that because I think the “get a life guy” could be lance and he likes to rebut everything you say. And after reading the posts it made me think of that.
Here might be another dumb question, if Lance is recalled and someone replaces him, do they becom mayor-pro tem. Or do they just get the counsil seat. Also do they have to re-run in november if they replace his seat? Just wondering.
Paulie.
Am I in trouble for leaving town to attend the St. Margaret’s 35-0 victory over Aquinas tonight as Mission beat Notre Dame 40-14?
It is always refreshing to get away from politics and this keyboard for a few hours.
No. If Lance get’s recalled I am certain that the council will vote to see who get’s that seat.
A bigger question precedes that vote. The recall election occurs AFTER the annual Dec musical chairs activity in which the council votes among themselves to see who will be mayor and mayor pro-tem for 2010. With three votes the majority may give Lance a going away gift and vote for him to be mayor. As such he will face the recall while sitting in the top banana seat.
If that happens we may be able to report watching the biggest tree in Mission Viejo falling next February.
Watch this action. If he is recalled in Feb Lance can run again in the Nov General Election.
That presents additional commentary. Although he could win in Nov and serve 12 years, they would not be consecutive. Unless I am mistaken he would not be eligible for the lifetime health care benefit with that scenario.
Fullerton Council Member Don Bankhead was recalled in 1994 yet was re-elected three more times beginning right after being recalled. He is currently the Mayor of Fullerton.
As Lance’s term was to end this Nov he or his replacement, depending on the outcome of the recall election, would need to run again.
There is also the question of another council seat as John Paul Ledesma cannot run again due to our term limits.
This fact is overlooked by the recall opponents who attempt to scare voters with the threat of a new council majority taking over the city when no one knows who will take John Pauls seat in Dec.
And no. Lance MacLean will not be interviewed by me. The problem I have is that he lied to not only the voters in his 2002 ballot statement but to me as I issue election voter guides to many people who trust my judgement and recommendations. We at the Republican Assembly endorsed him in 2002 which was the biggest candidate mistake I have ever made. I am not proud of my failure to fully vet him out. Prior to someone becoming an elected official it is impossible to “trust, but verify” them.
Hi Larry, well I’m here on your blog, nice graphics (get rid of the mouse-face guy and put a picture of me up on the main page header). Looks like you’ve got quite a following, I’m impressed. All the entries about me look pretty damning. Say something positive about the interview we had. What’s up with the title of this blog “The Three Stooges Arrived?” Who are the stooges and why would you call them stooges? I’m surprised you haven’t interviewed my opponent yet (my interview was two weeks ago). Do you think he’ll be prepared enough? Larry, you know I love this city with all my heart and have 25 years experience of being honest, 25 years experience of setting goals and taking responsibility. This is the kind of experience Mission Viejo needs and that I could make a huge contribution. The best news is I’m ready to start.
Dave. Thanks for the kind words about the Juice blog. I will pass them on to the founder/editor Art Pedroza.
As to my interview of Dale Tyler. I just spend hours preparing questions interviewing him and posting his answers on the blog. Please do check it out.
Many of the questions are the same which I asked you in our meeting such as the tennis center expansion, Right to Vote Initiative, dog park, recall, health care and his campaign manager and budget.
Having read both recent candidate statements, that will appear in the election Ballot our 60,000 voters wil receive in the mail, along with a hit piece and Lance’s rebuttal, in which several generic allegations are virtually identical, I did include those charges in my line of questioning.
I am somewhat disappointed if you wanted part of your candidate statement to be a head to head comparison rather than generalized on points for which Dale was not guilty as charged. Check his reply denying any personal positions to those allegations.
Dave. I never accused you of being dishonest and would stand alongside you if anyone even mentions that point.
From our interview you did say that Susan cautioned you on mentioning her name in your campaign. She and Sherri each carry baggage that hinders, not helps, your chances. She was correct.
Looking forward to an interesting 66 days.
Regards,
A happy Kwik Kopy customer. LG.
Dave says he’s “ready to start.” I suggest he read Larry’s interview with Dale Tyler. If he comprehends Dale’s answers, he will know he needs about 10 years of real involvement to get ready. Dale knows city issues, and he’s adept at other important things like traffic and the budget. By comparison, Dave knows the copy business and he likes to emcee events. If this were an election to choose an emcee for MV, Dave would be qualified. For him to say he’s “ready” shows that he doesn’t know what’s involved. We already have a lightweight on the council, and one of those is enough.
As for Dave’s honesty, ask him who wrote his ballot statement, then decide.
Council watcher.
This morning candidate Dave Leckness posted a comment saying “The best news is that I’m ready to start.”
However, let me take readers back to his Nov 10th comment of our interview where he admits a lack of knowledge and states”I will get the facts on the questions you asked that I need to make decisions on.”
So in the past 18 days he has studied all the many facets of major policy issues and is now ready to serve.
Hmm. What’s funny is that I was just beat up by an anonymus reader claiming that my interview questions of Dale Tyler were “puff piece” yet this critic did not utter a word about Dave’s total lack of knowledge on some of the very same questions. And to claim that I am biased.
Hi Dave, I read what you had to say on the other thread and don’t think it’s in your best interest to comment back to these hostile individuals. Take a moment and look what Mr. Gilbert calls you “a stooge” and “lack of knowledge”. His candidate is obviously Mr Tyler and nothing you can say is going to change the way he thinks. By commenting through this site is pointless. It’s too biased. Also, Mr. Gilbert did not challenge Mr Tyler on any of his answers. To leave out and not ask why his name is the first name on the recall petition that started this whole election is more than a little odd.
Neighbor. Let’s begin by telling you that your message to Dave may not reach him as this is not his blog or blog story. As such I do not know if he is still reading the newer comments. However I will still respond to your charges as follows:
The three stooges DID NOT include the candidate. Are you now a mind-reader?
Lack of knowledge? Even Dave admits lacking knowledge on current city issues which I asked about as confirmed in is email reply after getting a copy of the interview from me.
I didn’t challenge Dale on any of his answers? Go back and read the post again.
I challenged him on specific points in his candidate statement. Sadly our local media never questioned Frank Ury after he lied to us about the completion of Crown Valley Parkway that was stated in his 2008 Candidate statement which 60,000 voters received in their Ballot book.
Go back and read my interview.
Let me help you out.
In Dale’s statement, as true for most candidates, they point out their accomplishments or areas that they feel they can do a better job. Dale responded to every question without looking for cover. I challenged him on his comments such as cost overrruns, more open government, examples of self enrichment and balancing budgets. I also asked him to respond to allegations in the hit piece circulating in town with wording that is very close to Dale’s candidate statement and Lance’s rebuttal.
As stated several times I was not a party to the recall activity other than to be one of the last of the 50 plus who signed the petition to commence the process. The fact that Dale Tyler’s name appears first does not mean that he initiated the recall effort.
When I was a candidate for city council in 1994-96 I did not wish to sign in the top spot. I left that space open for high profile people in the city with the expectation that it would give me a bounce in voter acceptance from people who did not know who I am.
In fact neither candidate signed their own nominating papers as one of the 30 names.
Even if Dale started the recall effort, there are many residents who applaud that action. Even Dave Leckness told me that while he “was not familiar with the recall” yet at the same time said “it’s time for a change” speaks volumns.
On paper BOTH Dale and Dave have one issue in common. As candidates they both want Lance to be recalled. If not something is very fishy in the Fulton Fish Market.
Good morning Juice readers.
Before getting your coffee we should all drink some Orange Juice.
Now that I have looked at both candidates web sites I am adding text from Dave Leckness which truly confuses the voters.
To refresh where we have been, and where we are today, let me take us back to the Nov 9th interview where Dave said he was “not for the recall” and “did not sign a recall petition” and is “not familiar with the charges.”
He also said he had “no interest in running for city council in 2008” yet is jumping in today.
He could have waited until the Nov 2010 election where we will have an open seat as John Paul Ledesma is termed out of office. But that’s not what he is doing.
Let’s now look at some text found on his campaign web site which is truly confusing:
“The second measure asks who should replace Lance MacLean on the city council if the recall passes. It is important you vote on this measure, because there are substantial differences between my positions and those of the other candidate. I think Mission Viejo is in terrific shape.”
Note. Dave’s last sentence is in bold type.
And now let me take you back to the Nov 9th interview where Dave said “it’s time for a change.”
What are you saying David?
You just said we are in great shape!
If that statement is true, and he is not for the recall, why isn’t he on Lance’s team to oppose the recall rather than spending his own money and time to oppose Lance?
As mentioned above, he could run next year when there is an open seat.
Dave’s time for a change comment can ONLY apply to Lance MacLean. He couldn’t be referring to John Paul, Cathy, Trish or Frank as they are not the subject of this recall election.
Therefore Dave is sending us mixed and confusing messages. If it’s time for a change can you please be more specific? Blame this reporter for my failure to challenge Dave on that single statement. I should have but let him off the hook yet there are readers who say I am hard on Dave and favoring Dale.
Folks. There are times when no matter what you say or do you cannot win. The good news is my fallback to my years as a Rotarian and the very first question of the Four Way Test. No matter what readers say, everything written by me in this series is the truth.