On Monday, December 7th we learned that one of the paid solicitors gathering signatures on Mission Viejo petitions for the recall of councilman Lance MacLean contacted city officials with allegations of improper handling of the petition effort.
This unnamed individual lives in our neighboring city of Lake Forest. His allegation was published in the OC Register and posted on another Orange County blog.
Background info.:
On August 24, 2009 a representative of the recall effort turned over to our city clerk petitions with 13,915 signatures of registered voters in our city. While some were rejected for valid reasons the effort surpassed the required number to qualify for a future election ballot.
Fast forward to the past 10 days in which we learn that one of the non Mission Viejo paid workers gathering these signatures has sent a complaint to the city alleging violations of the recall effort.
As a writer for this blog, and whereas I have stated it previously, I again go on record to acknowledge that I was one of the 51 who signed the original documentation to begin the recall process. Beyond that I was not active in the recall effort nor did I participate in obtaining any of the signatures referenced above. Further I was not present when the volunteers and/or paid workers were given instructions on the correct procedures to follow.
A first question for me is an easy one.
Without knowing this individual, or when he was actively engaged in obtaining petition signatures, we do not know the dates of his employment. What we do know is that his communication with the city, virtually 100 days after the petitions were turned in to our City Clerk Karen Hamman, is suspect. At this point, while I might be able to eventually identify him, I am sure that his lips are currently sealed to any questions I might wish to ask. That’s not to say that I will walk away from investigating this matter rather than winging it as evidenced by Lance supporters in our city. I will try to contact him for an interview of his allegations.
If Mr. X was concerned with violations of the procedure, and there was ample time for a challenge to the recall before the petitions were certified by the ROV, why did he wait over 3 months to complain?
As I avoid the practice of “ready, fire, aim” I have contacted Connie Lee, who led the petition effort, to get her side of the story. We can get a better picture of her response by watching and listening to her comments at the December 7th Mission Viejo council meeting that I will transcribe below.
Sherri Butterfield, a former mayor of our city that we kicked out of office in the 2002 election, who herself was found guilty of a Brown Act violation by a Superior Court judge has weighed in. That case involved the same type of tactics used by Mr. MacLean. Intimidation of a fellow council member. Her commentary on the other County blog reads in part as follows:
“There is now WRITTEN EVIDENCE THAT SEVERAL PEOPLE who were engaged in gathering signatures on the Petition to Recall Mayor Pro Tem Lance MacLean BROKE THE LAW.”
I guess Sherri Butterfield, who has been MIA in our city since getting thrown out of office, apparently has a new job as both a judge and jury.
Sherri. What proof do you have that in fact any law was broken?
This is a perfect example of a political hit. Publishing the word of a fired solicitor without interviewing him directly or getting to hear the other side of the story.
However, this unnamed OC blog editor, who has opposed the MacLean recall from day one, did not even bother to add an editorial comment to Sherri’s remarks that this is purely an accusation at this time.
If an election law was broken can someone show me the headlines and case reference from the ROV, the DA or any court?
My knee jerk is that this is a rush to judgment as the recall is getting closer to becoming a reality.
Here is my best effort to transcribe the Public Comments from Connie Lee at the Dec 7th council meeting. After introducing herself as a long time resident of Mission Viejo Connie makes the following comments which she presents without a written speech or use of a TelePrompTer.
“I do just want to go over some basic law about petitions.
There seems to be some misunderstanding. Umm. There is no need for someone to be a Mission Viejo resident to gather signatures in Mission Viejo. Anybody can solicit..It could be someone from out of town..it could be someone from out of state..they don’t need to live here. There is no need to have a witness outside the tables. So, that certainly seems to be a misunderstanding.
All you really need is a voter..who lives in Mission Viejo, who can sign the petition, and, evidence that this is the law, anyone can go on line, download a petition, sign it, witness it, send it in. That’s all you need to do. It’s legitimate.
All you really need is the voter, on a petition form, so I brought my petition form here. There is a place to sign, there is a place at the bottom to witness. It could be the same person.
There is never an excuse not to have a witness because you have a witness right there when the person is signing it.
So I hope this clears up the question about did we need a witness out there. We do not. We need a voter.
But, when we worked with the Mission Viejo recall, we had a higher standard than that. We told anybody from another city we want our crew out there with you.
We demand that we have our witness to make sure that the person signing this is actually the registered voter they say they are.
What we don’t want is someone who is a paid petitioner to take a sheet home with them and go through the phone book and just come up with names and come back and say well here’s my sheet because we would say where’s the witness. And that’s the part that is missing. We were adamant about everybody who worked in the recall. They must sign.. they must have witnesses. At the end of the day, We collected them at the end of the day.
If they didn’t have a witness, we made it very clear to them that petition is not going in.
At the end of the recall we had quite a few sheets of paper that had been signed and not witnessed that we couldn’t turn in.
And rather than saying we’re so virtuous that we wouldn’t consider doing anything like that we’re actually protecting ourselves because there was a recall just recently that did not qualify, and if you are not out there supervising and making sure the people who sign it are who they say they are, than sometimes you don’t get to count those, and when the average goes down to 65% that indeed has happened that they got a lot of signatures.
I did see the e-mail from the person who was saying that something was amiss out there. He did acknowledge in the e-mail he had very specific instruction that he was to work with a witness and he was told EMPHATICALLY that no signature would be accepted by us or turned into the Registrar of Voters unless it was witnessed by one of us.
So, I do hope that answers your question. I will be happy to talk with anyone and I think probably we were infiltrated by the opposition and they found that we ran a tight ship.
So here, 10 months later, somebody, who got fired, because he couldn’t get any signatures and couldn’t follow our rules and was out there in an unauthorized capacity, is now providing the publicity stunt of the week.”
Note: Although I have spent well over two hours transcribing Mrs. Lee’s presentation for this update, my use of punctuation breaks is simply a best effort to follow her comments.
The only emphasis that you find is from her comments where Connie was very strong in her use of the word “emphatically” as it related to the rules for gathering petition signatures.
What next? Although I did not attend Monday’s city council meeting I did watch part of the replay and witnessed mayor Ury asking our city attorney about the allegations. Mr Curley was somewhat guarded and his vague response was that the proper authorities are launching an investigation.
According to the allegations from the fired petitioner he was left alone for periods of time. So what we have is a “he said, she said.” But beyond that was the instruction given to all non Mission Viejo residents that they are not to obtain any voter signatures when a MV resident was not present. Was he alone? If so, knowing the rules why did he continue obtaining signatures if in fact he did during that alleged timeframe?
We also heard Connie say that she has sheets that were not turned in.
Stay tuned. This story may continue for weeks.
Seems like this guy had an axe to grind…
Larry you really ought to read the Register. They use Mr. X’s name several times. Without that name you piece lacks some punch. By the way, on recall petitions the law is very plainly spelled out on the back of each sheet. Try tracking one down so you can give us faithful readers of yours the full story.
Dan. While I do get the Register delivered every day I have not opended it as yet. In fact is it lunch time?
Late Christmas party at our church last night.
I will have no problem in adding the petitioners name when I see it.
However, as you obviously know it, I am surprised that you didn’t include it in your above comment.
Dan. The full story? I just spent hours watching and carefully transcribing Connie’s public comments. As I stated, there will surely be more facts to come out as time moves ahead.
Perhaps you might respond to my point of the 100 day delay in complaining during which time this issue could have been raised PRIOR TO the ROV certification.
Your selective commentary speaks volumns.
Larry:
You hit the real essence of the story,”Why did Mr. X wait so long to lodge his protests, or make his allegations.” Perhaps there was a fishing party by some of the “Dearly Departed” council members and the bait was just right for Mr. X to surface and swallow the bait.
As to Sherri Butterfield, Susan Withrow, and Sharron Cody we all are aware of their nefarious past activities. This includes in Butterfields and Withrows case being convicted of violating the Brown Act. Quit honestly maybe some jail time should have been given to these two to help clear the fog from their brains. Certainly they are not model, or believable citizens. In Cody’s case her potty mouth got her in trouble at Monday nights city council meeting. Cody is modeling MacLeans behavior.
Instead of addressing MacLeans behavioral problems Mr. Avery choses to an insufferable nit picker who lacks understanding and a historical perspective of what is/has taken place in Mission Viejo. I would suggest Mr. Avery address the real issues befor him:
MacLeans VIOLENCE, ANGER AND INCIVILITY, HATRED AND DISRESPECT, SELF DEALING, GREED AND CORRUPT PRIORITIES, FINANCIAL MISMANAGEMENT, SUPPORTER OF LOCAL TAX INCREASES AND FALSE PROMISES.
Dan Avery. While I now know the name of the petitioner, can you kindly tell us what is relevant about that info?
For those out of town Juice readers who do not read the OC Register, Mr. X can now be identified as David Barron. And now what contribution does that major piece of missing information have to the post?
Larry, this is somewhat off topic, but if you haven’t listed to the whole council meeting yet, you should. It got extremely ugly. Hard to believe these folks had held their tongues and tempers long enough to get re-elected. Or maybe most of the voters just didn’t pay attention in prior years. Anyhow, it was shameful.
Erin. While I didn’t listen to the entire rebroadcast, I did hear former mayor Sharon Cody’s opening comments after Connie spoke.
Things have recently gotten very ugly in the “happy city” of Mission Viejo.
Larry, we know Connie used lots of illegal help from outside the city. In fact, my favorite one was “hat lady”. She sat in front of the Mission Viejo library for almost all of July, collecting signatures ALONE. And guess what, we KNOW she was from San Juan. This is getting almost as bad as Tiger’s ladies. There just seem to be more and more.
Do you doubt me? Does the name “Cynthia” ring a bell???
As you say, stay tuned…..
This is just the beginning.
Cynthia who? To the best of my recollection I was not at our library during the signature gathering. Perhaps you might ask city manager Wilberg. I was told that he was there observing what took place.
My God, you wasted more than 2 hours transcribing that old battle axe’s droning monologue? Was there any left awake by the time Grandma’s time was up? You people have truly turned Mission Viejo into a laughingstock. You’re going to spend $270k to recall a guy who would most likely be out of office in 8 months because no one would vote for him anyway. So much for your conservative principals. I know all about Lance’s transgressions and he maybe a bum, but the Mission Viejo Mafia has made this recall all about them. I sit here and read the he said she said and you people come off like a bunch of miffed high school girls throwing hissy fits. Do you know that’s how you people come off looking like? You literally sound like a bunch sniveling children. Who cares if he voted for medical benefits for himself, that’s what being a city councilmember is all about! Lots of freebies and you get to pontificate into a microphone. You should know that better than anyone, Lar. Besides, Mission Viejo has plenty of money in the bank anyway….all your really important reserve funds are fully funded and that’s what matters most. So why are you people so perpetually sour and tender about everything the city does? Jesus, get a life and quit making my city look like no one but douchebags crybabies live here.
Boss Lady.
You are a living example that no matter what we say, do, or when we do it, we cannot win. Some have questioned my delay in posting this story which appeared on Monday in the OC Register and in multiple comments on another OC blog. Some felt I was dodging this latest episode entirely.
I do not apologize for having attended two Christmas functions at our church this week which have taken me away from researching this breaking story and this keyboard.
But I do resent your shooting the messenger whose job is to cover the city I have lived in for over 30 years. So the solution is easy. Simply avoid my posts.
In fact, before leaving, why are you wasting your precious time to throw mud on this thread?
It took two hours to transcribe five minutes? You were at two church functions this week? Larry, you need a few lessons in fiction writing. You really need to look up verisimilitude. And you know why you delayed so long in writing this. You had no idea how to handle the story as it broke. You are not a journalist, Larry. If you were you’d be covering an entirely different story. You’d have interviewed the planning commissioner who was told by Connie Lee that the recall had nothing to do with Lance. That, according to her, it was all about getting Dale elected and Lance was the easiest target. Clearly you didn’t watch that far into the meeting. I bet you were too busy making moon eyes at Lee.
Once again DAN AVERY is not addressing the issues at hand.
Dan, MacLean is a violent man. He has a history of violence !!! Just when does he commit an act that will cost the city $20-$25 million in legal actions because of his unchecked temper.
Dan, Dan, Dan.
We should have invited you to our church where we could all have prayed for you. There is still time. We have another party tomorrow evening. Simply give me a call and I will bring you as our guest.
While I may have some talents and gifts, not wanting to be accused on making a mistake in transcription of every word I had to watch the video, stop it, rewind it, was cut off several times due to my service provider and our TRS 80 computer, was interrupted by multiple phone calls, and struggled to make sure I quoted Connie without any errors.
Yes, I could have simply provided a link to the city site but have learned that the easier you provide materials for readers, the better your chances that they will read it, and can do so when it’s convenient to them.
Mr. Avery. Question. Although I did not have to share the input on the time and effort it took me to write the post, did I make any mistakes in providing Connies every word?
No need to thank me.
As to the planning commissioner you are once again trying to change course and are hanging off the edge of this thread.
Boss Lady……It couldnt have been said any better. Our Community is in fact being reduced to a laughing stock by the douchebags crybabies led by their cheerleader “Larry Gilbert” His name alone draws sneers and jeers….but as it stands he’s ours for entertainment value alone.
Larry, Will anything even happen because of this, or is this just something else to waste taxpayer money at another counsil meeting looking to get its own reality show. What happened to discussing issues going on with the city. Is the counsil bored?
Side note, you should look in to the grant that the city just got Waste Management for the food recycling program. Then look at the ranking system for the RFP for trash service for the city and the composting section. Why would that have more bearing the the ranking for price. You might find a story that could have a lot of interest if you read between the lines.
Paulie Shore.
While you are going off the thread let me simply respond to say that I am following the council RFP that includes having our trash containers washed out twice a year for $6 per homeowner. Story to follow after the New Year.
We are the new Comedy Central and the admission price is “free.”
John, Oh John.
What does your comment have that warrants inclusion on this thread?
Get with the program. Follow the rules.
And John or John, Paul AND Mary, whomever you really are, if the name Larry Gilbert offends you so much why are you increasing my popularity by adding comments to my posts?
Folks. As of now this matter is in a holding pattern while the investigation proceeds.
Since losing my crystal ball I will not engage in speculation.
I’m sorry…did you mean balls?
My crystal ball sees the county spending more money on the recall.
I see the letters D and A
something about an investigation.
I see Connie Lee in tears.
And what about Connie’s co-conspirators Larry Gilbert and Dale Tyler?
Stay tuned…
Madame Leotta.
Sorry that I am late getting back to you. We just returned from Steve Greenhut’s book signing. Books, you know what they are I assume.
Not to be sarcastic but its people like you who engage personal attacks or simply blare out misinformation about people to give you a high.
Co-conspirator? Writing on this blog about local events makes me a co-conspirator?
Other than signing the initial recall documentation I have not been engaged in the recall effort. Thank you, but I do not deserve credit for the hard work of others.
Another bit of your misinformation. The county will not absorb any of the recall costs.
It’s almost 9 p.m. which is close to my bedtime so I will say good night.
Looking forward to your future comments.
#20,
Larry was not any sort of conspirator. He was not formally involved in the recall.
And our District Attorney does not pursue political cases.
If anything this would go to the state.
And if anyone is likely to find himself in tears it will be Lance Maclean.
I suspect your crystal ball is cracked…
Using a signature gatherer against the Recall UPROACHES THE UNREAL!!! Most are meth heads and thugs. This has embaressed Maclean far more than the tacky anti recall signs that now seem to be emerging on our lawns.
Terry Brown.
What did you say? Signature gatherers were used for, not against , the recall.
As to the anti-recall signs I will reserve comment.
Wow, I’m getting my story from the OC Register. She paid them in cash? She didn’t put people on the books so they could collect unemployment? Damn. I own a business and I’m a real liberal; perhaps the only real liberal in Southern California. Boxer and that other chick are Neo-Cons in my book. I’m willing to help my employees start a union. Victoria has to tell me all the time “We are The Man.” That is where I am coming from on employment. So here’s the deal. You never ever ever pay someone in cash, off the books. NEVER. That is just plain stupid.
And I’ve fired people before and you never say to them, as Ms. Lee did, “even if I hadn’t fired you and you were still working…” What you do is call security and then make sure they take nothing out of the door other than their personal belongings. Maybe someone should tell Ms. Lee about the Betty Ford clinic. Oddly, they asked my mother to be the first director when it opened. She said no.
Larry what Terry Brown said was that the MacLean forces are using signature gathers to fight the recall. But the post has a far more interesting point. If these gathers are really Meth heads and thugs, then it really raises the questions of why Lee hired them in the first place and how much of their work can be trusted. Oh, and just how many people did she pay in cash? Meth heads and Thugs, from my experience, don’t have bank accounts.
Dan. Meth heads? You truly need to get a life. The last we heard is that this petition process is being investigated. So folks, I have nothing further to add on that aspect of the recall election until we hear from our chief of police services which probably will not ocur until the first meeting in Jan. if in fact he has anything to report
Larry where oh where are you….nothing new to update on our City’s recall efforts…..Does our DA have your tongue ? Has he silenced your rapier wit? Its nice to see you squirm and claim no responsibility on the recall efforts “Other than signing the initial recall documentation I have not been engaged in the recall effort.” I hope for your sake that proves true. As the DA digs into its investigation it will be interesting to see how the trail of lies and deception play out. You are obviously a smart man and have much to offer, I simply wish your talents would be better spent improving the quality of our wonderful City, not just slinging mud from the sidelines. Happy Holidays
John. Where am I? did you read my latest post on the CHSRA bullet train?
There are other stories to cover rather than engaging in speculation on what, if anything, the DA’s office will say or do on the recall petitions.
I have seen an email floating around urging people to call the DA or an OCSD investigator. What is sad is that someone is throwing out charges that will not hold water if or when the investigation concludes. That’s my opinion.
Lies and deception? As I did not witness petitions being signed let me ask you a question. Before you place your John Henry on any document do you take the time to read it and see what you are signing?
That said, how can anyone make an allegation of lies or deception?
Again, I did sign one petition and knew what it contained. I would expect nothing less from any other voter. If you are uncomfortable with, or do not like the answers provided, simply walk away. Were arms twisted? Were lives threatened?
While I have not endorsed either replacement candidate don’t expect me to remain on the sidelines much longer as I fully suppport the recall effort.
In fact there were two other charges I would have included if I wrote the list of charges. One being our fight to stop Lance from giving one of our auto dealers $2.1 million dollars that cost me a lot of political capital from close friends within local political ranks. In seeking our endorsement he had opposed “corporate welfare” than fought us every step of the way as the council finally reduced it to $600,000 over his vocal and voting objections.
Those people gathering signatures were not union thugs intimidating workers as you see in old time movies.
And a Merry Christmas to you as well.
Man, you guys are funny. I hope our recall of a school board member up here in Stockton doesn’t come off sounding like yours. That would truely be sad.