There is a little known practice in legislation called the tie-bar. It is where certain pieces of legislation are passed but do not take effect without other laws. In this case, what the Democrats appear to be proposing to do is to tie reforms moderates and independents are seeking to health care reform. Case in point, Bart Stupak is demanding that denying federal funding of abortions be included in the reform of the health care reform package. I couldn’t find a lot of mention of it outside of Michigan and Iowa, but it’s been around awhile. It looks like Health Care Reform COULD actually happen.
Here’s how…
OK, so the Democrats in the House can’t pass the Senate Health Care version. So they are going to reform the Senate version with legislation that will directly reverse parts of the Health Care act. They pass them with Republican and Democrat votes. Then they take those pieces of legislation and try to walk them through reconciliation in the Senate so they only have to get 50 of the most Liberal, safe Democrats to sign on. The trick is, they have to pass those pieces of legislation FIRST. The reforms are the ones that don’t become law unless the Senate version passes the House and the President signs it. No Pro-Life Democrat or independent is going to take Nancy Pelosi at her word when she says she’ll vote on the reform bills AFTERWARD. I mean, liberals are stupid. They’re just not that stupid.
The drawback to this little trick is, once the Democrats start doing it, the Republicans are going to start adding their own reforms to the mix. And they are very, very popular. Serious tort reform. State to state insurance purchases. State by state insurance pools with flexibility to manage themselves. A lower price tag. The more the Democrats try to shoot those down, the worse it will get. They can try some to the mix, but Republican proposals are poison to the interest groups that control the Democrats. Try sending those up to the Senate and you’d be lucky to get 40 votes for any one of them.
But I have to tell you, my heart is aflutter with this new tie-bar idea. You could put a whole series of bills together that can pass with majorities of mostly Republicans and reasonable Democrats that have to be passed, together, and none of them would take effect unless they were all passed, and then none would take effect until the final Senate Health Care Reform version was signed into law.
The Democrat Leadership would probably give up and walk away at that point. Most reasonable things, they just won’t accept. Besides, the pro-abortion lobby won’t let this poke in the eye go unpunished. They will lean on their own House members to oppose the final bill. What happens when they get enough pro-abortionists to bail on the final Health Care vote?
1. There is no “federal funding for abortion” in the Senate bill or any bill. It is forbidden by the Hyde Amendment. Resist using FOX talking points.
2. The only problem with state-to-state insurance purchases – which seems to be one of the Republicans’ only 2 or 3 ideas – is that the insurance companies end up getting regulated by the state with the weakest regulations – say Mississippi maybe. And then they can get away with anything they want. And this is exactly why the Republicans (who we know are “wholly owned subsidiaries of the insurance industry”) keep calling for that unreform.
Now, state-to-state purchases with a new federal regulator – that we could talk about!
Sorry Vern. Nice try. The Hyde Amendment only covers Appropriations Bills. Not ANY legislation. The Health Care Scheme is an Act. A comprehensive regulatory piece of major legislation and yes, it does contain federal funding for abortion. Please resist MSNBC talking points. When a dollar every month of every person who joins, or is mostly FORCED to join, the new Government Health Care Program (“because you will all be so much happier when you do” according to the President) goes to funding Reproductive Programs, whether you like it or not, thats federal funding of abortion.
And if it isn’t there, then have the Stupak amendment again and satisfy the Pro-Life Democrats. The pro-abortionists won’t put up with that poke in the eye.
Since the federal government makes a mess of most everything, and a vast majority of Americans agree, I wouldn’t count of another federal regulator to hold down freedoms Vern.
Again, nice try tho.
Since the federal government makes a mess of most everything, and a vast majority of Americans agree, I wouldn’t count of another federal regulator to hold down freedoms Vern.
Well, then the objection of all decent people to allowing insurance to be sold across state lines and regulated by Mississippi will still stand. Nice try though Terry (and your Republican friends.)
Won’t waste time dancing on the head of a pin with you over fungibility and abortion. You can go to the extreme where any money you spend anywhere – at your corner Circle K for example – might end up going to abortion. May as well curl up and die, eh?
I wouldn’t count of another federal regulator to hold down freedoms Vern.
HOLD DOWN FREEDOMS.
Everyone remember what we’re talking about. Terry is talking about the “freedoms” of the poor beleaguered insurance industry. The freedom to jack up your rates whenever they want. The freedom to suddenly decide they don’t want to cover this or that procedure or medicine that you really need. The freedom of rescission, to suddenly drop you from their rolls when they decide you might be too expensive for them to cover. THIS is the freedom brave Terry is holding fast for by resisting regulation.
Nice try, WHOLLY OWNED SUBSIDIARY!
Everyone realize what Vern and the rest of the Progressives are proclaiming. That “greed”, which has been around since man walked upright, is to blame for the problems. The same greed that built the country, that created the wealth everyone enjoys, that enabled the prosperity we all cherish. Its the greed that says someone else cannot tell me what I can charge.
You don’t like it, go elsewhere. But, you can’t go elsewhere, because Democrats won’t allow it. Isn’t that cute?
And don’t forget that when you talk about the numbers of people who get dropped in recission (you forgot to mention you had a fever when you were 4), you can just add a zero to the right of that for the numbers of recissions under government medicine. FACT. And if you don’t like the fraud and waste, just wait. When they use government fraud and waste as an excuse for more government control, the fraud and waste are just around the corner boys and girls. You ain’t seen nothin yet! Wait til black market medical procedures are a norm. Oh, then the fun!
This is what stalwart Vern wants to make sure EVERYONE gets, not just those on Medicare. Because if everyone isn’t standing in line, if everyone doesn’t get the same pathetic healthcare, if no one can pay for it themselves and medical care is determined by what government can afford, then we’re all in the same leaky boat. And that’s what Progressives want. A sinking ship. They don’t like America. And if you work hard and play by the rules, they don’t like YOU.
If any of you believe any of THAT, if it makes sense to you, then cheers!
I’m talking about real life though.
Terry,
Be careful, it’s sounds like all these feverish-fantasies you’ve cooked up might cause you to blow a gasket or two. Take a deeeeep breath and ask yourself:
How many senior citizens do you know, personally, that have decided to opt-out of their government sponsored health care called MEDICARE??????
If you’re HONEST, that number is ZERO, and NOBODY is standing in line or having any “black market procedures.”
Try and keep those voices in your head PRIVATE, because you’re just embarrassing yourself. Please, show some self-respect.
Well, reason and honesty bring out the fruitcakes.
Anonster has poked its head out. This is a stupid analogy and I will actually give them the consideration that they have enough brains to know it. There are 19 contributors for every Medicaire recipient. That was its purpose. A limited benefit to the oldest and neediest. And mostly because lazy people like anonster couldnt be bothered with the burden of taking care of their grandparents and parents. No. That’s the governments obligation. Then they work that limited benefit up to a “right” they want in on too.
You, Anonster, have an obligation to provide your health insurance for yourself. If the system is screwed up because there is no connection between the cost of health insurance and what is paid for it, then I blame people like you who inserted government between a citizen and their doctor.
The radical attitude that a majority of America does not and never did want to see in place will only increase the misery index in this country. We have the best medical care in this country and I will do everything I can to keep people like you and Vern from screwing it up. Of course there needs to be reforms, everybody knows that. Like everybody wants clean air and water. The only way these wack jobs get their argument heard is to lie about what really is and call it something else enough times.
Real life? Verns sounding shady. Anonster just sounds lost.
You make the case well. For increased mental health services to people in cabins, I mean.
This is a waste of time. People really interested in health reforms know the very idea of politicians keeping other people honest ought to tell us what a farce this is. But if we keep buying it, they will keep selling it.
One of the ways to reduce costs would be to do the OPPOSITE of what people like Vern and Anonster babble. And they know it. Reducing regulations would instantly eliminate thousands of state mandates, which force insurance to cover everything from wigs to marriage counseling, depending on which special interests are influential in which states.
Finally, there are costs that are high because people want medical care in more comfortable surroundings– a private room rather than a bed in a ward, for example– and are willing to pay for that. This is more common among Americans.
There is no reason for others to interfere with that, just because of a mindless mantra of “bringing down the cost of medical care” or class warfare rhetoric about “Cadillac health plans.”
Hi. Do you post here or examiner 1st?