Note to readers, June 19, 2013. This story by our former and now-departed editor is for some reason getting a lot of hits today. This sort of thing happens sometimes with our backlog of long-out-of-date stories; often, as here, we don’t know why. I haven’t read the story and I don’t plan to; the incendiary title tells me that it was probably just the former editor’s desperate attempt to stir up interest so as to get more page views. Read on if you want, but don’t assume that this represents this blog’s current position on anything. We keep these stories around as historical artifacts, not for their merit or news value. – G.A.D.
ASL loons are now comparing those who want parents to have options for their deaf infants to Adolf Hitler!
Can you believe it? The American Sign Language (ASL) cultists who are opposing Assemblyman Tony Mendoza’s AB 2072, have now invoked the Hitler card! How crazy are these people?
AB 2070 will give parents of infants found to be deaf more information about options available for the treatment and education of their children. That’s it folks. It is a very harmless bill that simply brings California up to par with most other states.
Up until now, the ASL cultists have tried to limit information given to parents, at the hospital, to include ASL only.
This bill is about choice – and the ASL cultists want to remove that choice and continue to focus only on ASL.
Some guy named Edwin Black penned a horrible article comparing AB 2072 to what the Nazis did to Jews. How sick is that?
Nobody wants to kill the ASL cultists! All we want is more options and choices for parents.
Check out this excerpt from Black’s crazy diatribe:
California eugenics has a direct link to Nazi Germany’s war of extermination against Jews and all other Europeans deemed less worthy than the Aryan master race. In the first two decades of the twentieth century, American eugenics launched a campaign to create a white, blue-eyed, blond-haired master race in America, a biological ideal they called “Nordic.” A key center for the pseudoscience of eugenics sprang up in California. It was from California that eugenicists, backed by wealthy philanthropies such as the Carnegie Institution, created racist pseudo-medical brochures and proposed legislation to eliminate the existence of all people on earth who did not resemble the Nordic ideal.
Some of these ASL crazies have even said that they would reject medical options that would help kids hear. Unbelievable!
Please let your legislator know that you want them to vote for parental control of their deaf infants’ education. Ask them to vote yes on AB 2072!
Art Pedroza, Publisher–you better have evidence that Edwin Black was “hired” to write an article by ASL people–which is unethical. If you don’t have evidence of a payment–it is libel. The article in The Cutting Edge News you cite was mainly drawn from one that was syndicated to the San Francisco Chronicle and other newspapers years ago, a half decade or more before the legislation in question, all drawn from the 2003 award-winning book War Against the Weak. We will be getting in touch with you.
Edwin,
To prove libel you have to prove intent to harm. Good luck with that. Obviously my source was wrong. No problem, we will amend the story.
That said, your article isn’t helping your cause. Resorting to bringing up Hitler is ridiculous. You should apologize to the Jewish people for that one.
Moreover, threatening us just shows you for what you are. A bully.
It all started in England when Paddy Ladd invented deafhood. Ella brought defhood to the States. She and her deafhoodized followers shouted “tear down the wall” at Milwaukee. They registered audism in their head and tried to reinvented holocaust by resorting to deaf hate crime and eugenics debates. They brought in Edwin Black to support their point. What next? My guess is either Ella or Carl are going to show up with Hitler moustache fairly soon and start a new holocaust against hearing people. At least it looks that way.
Calling Deaf people cultists is just another symptom of your hate and prejudice toward them. For the last ten years, I have seen that kind of hate and prejudice growing and I’ve seen oppression and discrimination against deaf people increasing. All of it’s irrational.
For example, Richard Roehm of Modern Deaf Communication wrote a very hateful, eugenics-like letter to Senators in support of AB 2072, “As civilization evolves and advances, the communities within advances as well. Not all communities are willing to advance with civilization. The sign language based deaf community is one of them. They may seem to advance with technology, but they remain in a medieval state of mind that still believe in staying dependent on taxpayers and living in a closed society.”
Roehm goes even further in his letter by saying, “The costs of maintaining a dependency based deaf community is enormous. Theresa Bugler wrote in the lifestyles magazine that it costs $800,000 to teach a deaf child sign language. The costs go beyond the $800,000 when taxpayers has to pay for their interpreters in their schools, pay for their videophones in their homes, and finally pay for their living expenses for the rest of their lives because they usually end up not working. Modern Deaf Communication has determined that deaf people who routinely use videophones have a lower job occurrence in the deaf society.
“Given these times when California is strained financially, it pays more to create a new deaf community that does not end up as dependants on society as we’ve seen they have become and does not end up as a drain on the taxpayers.
“It pays more to give the parents the options on how their deaf babies are to be raised. Lets return the deaf babies back to the soft warm loving arms of their parents instead shipping them off to the hard cold crab claws of a closed deaf society.”
Does that sound like Nazi propaganda to you? If you disagree, please replace “Deaf” with “Jewish” and “sign language” with “Hebrew”. Does that open your eyes wider? Do you see it?
It’s really unbelievable… It’s one thing to hate deaf people. It’s another to lie and cheat your way to legislating all the pieces needed to make your eugenics vision successful.
I think Americans are crazy if they don’t speak out against this kind of thing.
Tim,
No one hates deaf people, but you guy ARE acting like cultists when you refuse to allow parents to be given information as to the choices available for the education of their deaf children.
ASL is not the only option. It is past time for parents to know that.
There is nothing Nazi about having a choice. But trying to tell parents that YOUR way is the ONLY way for their kids is more than a little fascist.
Choice is freedom. Consigning kids to ASL without giving them a choice is not freedom. It is that simple.
Stop trying to tell parents how to raise their kids. Leave it to the parents and the medical and educational professionals to do their jobs!
Art Pedoza, you are a loon, and just stirring trouble against the Deaf Community who have been born to live through it all the rest of their lives, and its when Deaf Culture and Language is what life is all about, and you go out calling them ASL loons? You are not making any credible sense in your article, and you are one vile disgusting person trying your futile best to destroy a Deaf community with your hate speech. Why don’t you go running out there calling Deaf people ASL loons in front of many of their loved ones, families, and friends they cherish the most, maybe you would end up getting your ass kicked, and I would say you would deserve it more than Hitler does!
Could you correct the spelling of Theresa Bugler to “Bulger”, as this would be the correct person you are referring to.
I think that is the failing, instead of trying to engage parents they turned on them as well as the medical profession. It appears doubtful they have the means to offer unbiased information. I rather suspect some will never ever accept oralisms or CI’s no matter how it is presented to parents. It’s the intransigence of the view that is self-defeating, you just know they are going to oppose all the time. Deafhood is probably deaf culture’s worst adoption ever, (The American version of it certainly), it will provide opposition to cultural advances and divide deaf people straight down the middle for years to come.
ASL cultists?? To have new parents sent on a journey to accept their Deaf child, and to understand what it means to raise a Deaf child is our prime concern. What does an ASL cultist have to do with this?? Such a silly notion of yours!
AB2072 supporters need to listen to the reality of parents before they can learn what is best for their Deaf babies. When we oppose AB2072, it does NOT mean we oppose parental choice! We object to the inequitable delivery of information about ASL. I shudder to think about the fact that many Deaf babies make it as successful Deaf adults through sheer luck. We need to get rid of the inherent attitudinal barriers that exist throughout the current system, as there are many ways to be Deaf in the world. Intolerance and same-old, same-old does not work today. Now is a time we can get through to people and show the value and riches of ASL and a Deaf life. Parents need this information to be FULLY informed about raising their children, who happen to be Deaf. We see ASL and Deaf culture as the bedrock allowing many of us to live a fuller life. All Deaf babies and children should have the same opportunity as I had!
AB2072 clearly shows age-old prejudice that has a hold on the U.S. and the world concerning Deaf people. Efforts to reveal anything but the “mainstream,” medical perception of Deaf people FAIL to touch the juggernaut of the medical industries’ hold on the view of Deaf people. AB2072 supporters, especially professionals in influential positions, have done everything in their power to marginalize ASL users for so many years. It is shattering, and it is past time for a breakthrough as we cannot thrive in an atmosphere of callous indifference! As Tim shared, we opponents have shown how AB2072 is spreading propaganda with corporate muscle, promoting technology at the expense of giving parents and Deaf babies the information they deserve. Against this private army of professionals, who have every economic advantage, the message of ASL and Deaf life is struggling to be “heard.” We need to change by making past mistakes the portals of discovery!
This post just pisses off the “cultists” – giving them more passion to fight the thing. If I may say so, I couldn’t have done better myself. Job well done!
That third comment (John Egbert), was not written by John F. Egbert.
Most of you know that B.S. uses this word, ‘deafhoodized’.
Good try B.S.
Dear Edwin,
Prove it if there is any type of eugenics? When a person mention Hitler for their cause shows their weakness. You had to use it to gain your benefit of doubt.
We’re a parents with deafness, one is born with it and the other was her sickness. We have a son who is deaf who has bilateral cochlear implants plus we do have hard of hearing daughter, too. Did the government came to my door and telling us what we need to do? NO…that’s not eugenics. We made a choice on what’s best for our children. We researched on our own and it was the best decision we’ve made.
My wife and I have shared our thoughts of giving Cochlear Implants to our deaf son when he was 2 years old. We’re prepared for people like cultist…we’ve received death threats, I got several alteration by some deaf people…I’ve been dragged to Norwalk Superior Court by a social worker.
Look around you…you’re doing more harm than good, that’s all I have to say.
Russell
You are wrong about libel, and false light. False light requires no intent to do harm, just a false representation about an individual. Your clear motive was to hold others up to ridicule. Your remarks were broadcast into Maryland where I live and where jurisdiction obtains here so when you say “good luck proving that,” careful what you wish for. If I were you, as sloppy with the facts as you are, as willing as you are to publish unvetted dribble as you are, I would be a bit more cautious about calling the deaf “loons,” which sounds to me like hate speech. I would also like to know the name of your “source” since they libeled me to you. You are not a journalist and have no privilege. Now for eugenics…. The story of California’s eugenic past is enshrined in numerous books and museum displays. For more information http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/ or many other sites. The state itself has adopted Resolution 20 to apologize for forcibly sterilizing more than 20,000 citizens. If you want to blog, blog responsibly. If you want to disagree, disagree professionally and graciously. Your advertisers should think about the quality of your publishing. I value your freedom of speech, but it is a valuable right that must not be misused. Now might be a good time to apologize to me and your deaf neighbors who may decide to take their own action with the California version of the Human Rights Commission.
Edwin,
You are in Maryland? Do you think that is going to go over well here in California? What stake do you have in this? Parents and legislators will not be happy that a guy in Maryland is trying to tell them how to raise their children!
Have you read AB 2072? It has NOTHING to do with eugenics, killing or sterilizing people. It is a law that will change the brochure that is given to parents when infants are diagnosed as being deaf. They will now be told about all their choices – not just ASL.
Also, may I suggest you go to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, at eff.org, to learn more about blogs. You are way off on most of your assumptions.
Trying to connect AB 2072 to Hitler and eugenics was a horrible mistake by the ASL cultists. Their effort is now toast…
The opposition of AB2072 asked Edwin Black to speak at the rally whether they paid him or not, says a lot about how crazy these opposeAB2072 advocates are. They’re practically screaming eugenics when the bill isn’t about eugenics at all. Edwin Black is more than happy to oblige in order to get more followers, and he ain’t no better than deafhood.
This bill is really simple, it just informs parents of other options besides ASL.
Yet on the other hand this CA Deaf Newborn Identification Advocacy group have come up with a plan that mandates all deaf babies to be taught ASL. Other options cannot be looked at until all babies are fluent in sign language. It’s pretty disturbing.. They’re all about parents choice? I think not.
They say it s all about deaf children, but it’s all about them isn’t it ? They want to influence or make the decisions without taking any of the responsibility for them.
You rail against parents’ not being offered information about the “options”. Yet, you say nothing about audiologists being legislated as the SOLE source of those options. What are audiologists trained to know and do? ONE option only. Now WHO is truly limiting parents’ access to information about what they can do for their Deaf children?
If you fail to see this, you are truly blind and blinded. In your rush to defend this indefensible bill, you are acting like the very “cultists” you continue to deride — the “cult of the Living Cochlea”, as it were.
DonG…
This is not about cochlear implant. You are making it to be all about cochlear implant. Whether a newborn is diagnosed with mild or profound hearing loss either in one or two ears, the parents will be given information on options available. A rich resource of information for them to begin their researching and soon make a determined and informed decision whether it’s a hearing aid, cochlear implant, ASL, SEE, cued speech, AVT, and so on. It’s about choices and what’s available out there.
Mcconnell,
Absolutely that I agree parents are to be given information on options available. When you say a rich resource of information for them to begin their researching and let’s say they wanted to learn more about ASL, who is going to do a good job explaining to them about it? An audiologist who is not even certified and trained to educate about language function won’t be qualified so that is why this bill is not sufficient to include a language specialist who is an expert not only in English but ASL.
Ok, Mr. Black, I’m fully aware of Holocaust/WW2 History since my husband is a Historian as well plus he lived in Germany for at least 20 years.
So.. Where were you in the past 30 years- even before and after you became an author (successful or not)? How come you didn’t spend a lot of time in the deaf community for the past years?
Tell me what’s so terribly wrong about the world trying to help the deafies to thrive and get by more independently? What’s so terribly wrong for the parents’ doing the best for their children? What causes that MOST ASL users in California wind up having very low education levels and the worst of all, low self-esteems. In Germany, “H” (I don’t want to say a full name) had forced the troop to do the beyond the worst to the deafies and in America, do the hearing world force us to talk or die??? No. That causes the government to FORCE us to spend more and more and more tax to take care of the deafies- especially the ASL-only deafies.
A lot of deaf people do get very frustrated and easily give up and defy hearing world due to the cruel and senseless treatments from hearing people. It’s ONLY an individual’s choice to defy against the hearing world who have provided enough of helps such as Vocational Rehabilition, free college education that is provided by the state, and many other things. Doesn’t it seem that the deafies take that for granted and continue to defy the hearing world?
Sure, we ALL have encountered some discriminations from all kinds of people but the deafies do the way way worst against the other deafies. Black people don’t go “If you’re not going to paint yourself black, I will not talk to you anymore”. Chinese people don’t tell the Americans “If you don’t speak Chinese, go hit the highway”.
Again, it’s only an individual’s CHOICE to run around in the circle with distorted messages, not the hearing people, certainly not you, not the ‘leaders’ on both sides.
Why don’t you fight for ALL people with disabilities, not just for the deaf community?
Remember- we’re in AMERICA. Controlling is not what we NEED from others, certainly from you. You cannot control and even attempt to manipulate the rights of parents’ choices. Not ALL deaf people want to use ASL, not ALL deaf people want to use CI, not ALL deaf people want to use Cue Speech, etc etc etc. YES- I repeat- YES there will be plenty of hearing parents that will CHOOSE ASL as the first communication method. That is a cold and hard fact so keep that in your mind.
BTW, my hearing husband loves your book and he knows a lot more about the deaf culture with all kinds of communication methods than you do. Seriously. He LOVES using ASL as a beautiful part of the deaf culture. Can’t wait to show this link to my husband and he’ll regret buying your book. How dare you label us as “weak people”…… DISGUSTING!
Laura, ur husband loves Edwin Black, and loves you more than him, so relaz. The point is that, the oppressors think we are weak, us deaf people. Wait until the oppressors get very suprised that we are not. Edwin Black did not call us weak people, he is saying that the oppressors think we are weak and could be taken advantage of, and we wont be weak and fight back harder than you think 😉
DonG
Have you met audiologist and did all of them would do one thing? Not! Not every child gets cochlear implant. The qualification to get them has to be 90db or higher. It has been regulated by FDA and it’s insurers. My son was profoundly deaf with over 95db on both ears and he wore two digital aids. Don’t forget if we decline his opportunity to hear with CI then the digital hearing aids will eventually loose more hearing as he grows up.
I’ve lost my hearing to another 10db by using a digital hearing aids for almost ten years.
Now, my boy hears at 10db and he understood the movie last night- a Toy Story 3. He’s only six years old.
Parents have the right to have a full resources before audiologist. If the bill passes, it gives more power to the parents than anyone.
Hence- it limits the audiologist to influence parents if that’s the case.
Russell
Parents have the right to receive appropriate service by a certified, trained language specialist (including ASL background) not just be limited to audiologist. The bill limited the choice for parents to receive consultation.
Indeed, AB 2072 will prevent either an audiologist or local Early Start provider from putting either a CI/AVT bias or an ASL bias on information given to parents. The bill will require that info on all options be shown to the parents, that’s all. Then it’s left to the parents to do their research on the options and they are free to choose whichever option(s) they feel is best for their deaf infant and their family circumstances.
The opponents of AB2072 have Godwin’d their views to irrelevancy online and taken the Nazi card to the senators. Such actions trivialize the suffering of the true victims of the Holocaust and of American sterilization programs in the first half of the last century.
While I agree that taking the Nazi card to compare Eugenics to this bill is sidetracked, I still oppose the idea of an audiologist to remain neutral when presenting the options. Let say case A, parents find out their baby is deaf..receives a written information as they were contacted by an audiologist…if they want to inquire about listening devices, they can easily contact the audiologist as he or she will get to explain with details. If they inquire about ASL, what would you think the audiologist say? It is a no-brainer.
AB 2072 is a runaway train. It will pass.
While I acknowledge that runaway trains
tend to stop at some point, whether it
crashes or to a slow then standstill.
The end of this runaway train will reach
the Governor’s desk for his signature to
enact it.
Edwin Black’s misguided opposition to AB 2072 will not hold weight.
Misguided? How? Read the damn bill. ASL is included along with
Total Communication, Cued Speech and Spoken English.
DonG said:
> What are audiologists trained to know and do? ONE option only.
You may be right. However, AB 2072 changes that. Get it now?
Communication Optionsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss (plural).
~BBF
Thats nothing new. Even Markie Lee , AKA “Dragoness Giant”, published artwork of me dressed up in a nazi uniform in youtube and post it in the DVTV website.
This how far they will go to label me because of my work toward bringing change to the deaf communities.
Art Pedroza and I have exchanged offline, and I trust the matter is now handled.
Edwin Black
PS I notice my earlier remark was edited out and that is fine.
Big Ben Factor:
I can’t hear the ssssssss sound lol
Then why don’t you get a cochlear implant like your son did so that you can hear the ssss sound?
Art,
Your article fails to address many of the concerns that the people who are opposed to AB 2072 have about it. Many of the concerns are shared by Senators in the Senate Health Committee and one of the main reasons why Mendoza does not have enough votes to pass it. That happens when it’s clear that passing the bill would create a bad public policy.
Information about American Sign Language is not going to be fairly represented because of the people who are behind this bill. To say that it’s supporting parents and Deaf children’s rights is a farce because of who’s going to develop and distribute the information. The people opposed to this bill have met with and expressed our concerns numerous times.
The amendment which the people opposing the bill recommended will include stakeholders, which means a diverse group of parents, deaf people, educators, and researchers in developing a brochure which a California government entity will distribute. We want to keep private interests and corporations out of dominating the information and influencing the decisions of the parents. Parents deserve to know all of the facts and be informed regarding their child’s needs.
If the bill is about information getting to the parents as early as possible, why is it so important that the information is controlled by private interests and corporations? Why is it so important that the information be given by an audiologist who stands to profit from options other than ASL?
If anything, the people behind AB 2072 are the bullies. Your attempt at spreading misinformation and hate against Deaf people is exactly why so many people in the community are so adamantly opposed to this bill.
We have done our research and what we have found about the people behind AB 2072 is what spurred us to speak out the way we did. I think we would be crazy to remain silent while Deaf people and other minority groups are targeted for exclusion from American society.
Tim
RussellE,
You will after you get your CI soon. 😀
Tim, why are many people spreading lies, myths and misinformation about the bill? They’re saying that AB2072 will take away the services that are already in place in CA. That’s a lie.
They’re saying that the bill is all about removing ASL. That the bill is about implanting more kids with CI. That is a lie
Upon looking at all the points in OpposeAB2072.com, there are many information that are lies, myths and misinformation.
The bill is not about what works. And, who’s behind the bill? parents who are frustrated because they were NOT told about other options besides ASL. That is who is behind the bill and if there are sponsors that are backing up these parents it is no different than the sponsors who are backing up OpposeAB2072.
Audiologist need to be put in place where they cannot be biased about options anymore, and that is what the bill will do.
As long as there are exaggerated lies and myths about AB2072 by those that opposes it, it reveals hidden motives by them. Hidden motive is that they do not want parents to be aware of any other options but ASL. That is a fact that is supported by the very same group who have been working for three years to revamp CA’s newborn hearing screening laws. It’s all right there and their goal is not about parents choice. Their goal is to force every single parent to opt for ASL first before they can even consider other options. It is their way of controlling the parents choice. They’re telling the parents that they’re not capable of making decisions for their own deaf child. That is absurd, Tim. As a culturally deaf individual, I find CA DNIA group who is also OpposeAB2072 group to be extremely biased.
BigBenFactor,
My wife and my son has them and I couldn’t go Taco Bell anymore, ha.
English lesson of the day…
My wife and my son HAVE them… not HAS them..remember to polish up your English skills by identifying the appropriate use of helping verbs based on singular or plural form.
Mia Orr invites Edwin Black to speak tmw Senate Hearing have been move to 112. Senates will NOT show on TV like Assembly before.
DIRTY TRICKS by opposition!
Tell senators NOW WILL NOT STAND SENATES HIDE THE TRUTH!
MUST HAVE TV FOR ALL TO SEE WHAT ALL SAYS!!!!
E.B. – “..as willing as you are to publish unvetted dribble as you are..”
Considering where that one came from in light of his recent article is certainly begging when it comes to “unvetted dribble.”
This is about parental choice. This is about giving parents the needed information to make a determined and informed decision. Nothing about eugenics. Seems like when desperation seeps in they go all out and invoke Hitler. What I want to know is why E.B. writing these articles with such hyperbole? What’s in it for him? Why the interest? Does he really understand about the whole issue at hand? Or is he just winging it looking for a way to generate additional readership?
Lots of questions here.
Or to generate more money and fame for himself, McConnell? To read the radio and TV interviews with/about E.B., one encounters how his books are being constantly plugged. He’s a money machine, lol.
Our plans are working. Edwin Black bought our story. With him on our side, we now can stop hearing parents from helping their deaf babies hear and talk! Their deaf babies belong to us, the Deaf Community. Deaf babies shall remain Deaf. No More Hearing Oppressors! PAH!!!
God intends us to be Deaf!! It’s not his plan for us to hear and talk. No more cochlear implants! No more AVT!
DEAF POWER!!!
Boy, this is one phony message coming from those who are against those who oppose AB2072. I have studied and interacted with people who oppose this bill and no where did they say NO to have deaf babies hear. And if even a few said that, it doesn’t mean it represents the whole oppositional group or who values Deaf power. It goes the same for you people who support the bill not agreeing with this information as well. Nice try to frame them in a false light.
Edwin Black speaks 5 minutes on history, AND 2 oppositions. KCRA will come.
deaf power embraced –
Did you know that ‘talk’ includes sign language.
8. to communicate ideas by means other than speech, as by writing, signs, or signals.
Dictionary.com
~BBF
Ann,
That’s one good reason. I listened to some of his YouTube video plugs and it’s about marketing his own works. What else? One of the agenda is to make money, of course. I don’t think E.B. understand the whole deafness issue, culture or otherwise. Exactly what are his background, expertise, experience and understanding on hearing loss related issues? On June 14, 2010 he held a lecture on the “endangered deaf community” that was centered around a common theme – “eugenics.” All this is becoming surreal and I question E.B.’s own sanity and understanding for thinking there might some money making or recognition seeking opportunity here to take advantage of. Sounds mighty predatory to me.
I think Edwin Black is completely clueless about the mentality of Deafhood people. He probably thinks they are fighting for the rights of Deaf people, but not that they are into total Deaf Power and block parents’s choices for their deaf babies learn how to talk and hear. He don’t realize the Deaf community feel they, not the parents, own the deaf babies. ASL for all, no cochlear implants and no audioverbal therapy. He is going to make a complete ass out of himself.
Leon,
Probably so. Just exactly how informed is he? What is his stake in this? Why the interest? What are his exposures or experiences on deafness? Does he have a hearing loss himself? His family members? His friends (not his recent ones via his recent articles on AB2072)? His action is begging more questions here.
Yoohoo…E.B.!! Don’t be a stranger. Tell us your background, experiences and such regarding deafness.
Today’s the big day. Cross our fingers.
AB 2072 passed the Senate Health Committee I believe 8 to 1.
The true colors, their actions, the insanity, the mythmongering, the whole disorder of the ASL cultists are making them the true losers.
Next step Senate vote.
Richard,
That is great news! Thanks for the update!
The dust from the battle starting to clear out. It’s 5 for, 1 against, 3 abstain.
Excuse me – who’s crazy?
i lost track with all the shuffling and shoving and shoveling (ya know the b.s).
Science, doctors, specialists and government going hand and hand to legislate and mandate that certain types of babies’ parents MUST / ARE REQUIRED BY LAW see an audiologist is not really an option.
Maybe they prefer to see a bi-bi specialists. maybe the prefer to pop open a bottle of bubbly and see if the infant even bats an eye as they celebrate her or his birth and her or him being Deaf.
So if you R E A L L Y wanna fight for parental rights:
– fight for the parents that might not want to have to be REQUIRED by law to do follow up with an audiologist too
– fight for the parents that might not want to be court ORDERED by a judge to make their child wear her cochlear implants “all her waking hours” regardless of whether or not they are working or hurting her or even necessary too
– fight for the parents that might not want their kids blood collected and tested and preserved in the State Dept of Hygiene in Wisconsin too
cuz those crazy folks just might think…. they are still living in the United States of America and u might want to fight for ALL the parents. Not just the ones who want to make their kids undeaf but A L L of the parents and maybe some day we might get around to discussing the most thorniest of issues – where are the child’s OPTIONS in all this.
i know i know – ya all is too busy pointing the finger at who is the most craziest to even seem to truly CARE.
Crazy calling reflects right back on ya folks – especially when u r faced with FACTS not b.s..
Peace
Patti
Hope the AB2072 Bill will be handed down to the Deaf Community, exactly what is expected, and no less. If the Bill is contaminated with any of the AGBell Ethnocide and Genocide crap, it will not fly! It’s all about disrespecting the Deaf Culture, and our Linguistic heritage. Ban AGBell, and all other offending parties shall cease and desist thru an injunction and be renounced from the United States, and especially ICED as well. Stop Eugenics and Genocide, and Hitler and AGBell will not live on after their death to terrorize our people! Long live Deaf Culture and our Language Heritage! Amend to this AB2072 Bill that it is a State, and a Federal offense to practice Cultural and Language cleansing (Genocide and Ethnocide) in the USA!
Since the first senate vote, it had to go through another assembly vote for which it passed then through the appropriations committee in which got it into the suspend file then it was voted out of the suspend file on the 12th of August and now faces a final Senate vote possibly tomorrow or in the next few days before it goes to the governor’s desk.
Now I see that desperation maximus is causing the opponents to pick on all deaf supporters of the bill in different ways.
Theyre spewing crap especially 2 nights ago a deaf man by the name deafchef62 made a vlog accusing me of making 21 prank calls to him and yesterday after getting the right tools to investigate he finds the calls were coming from China. Until deafchef62 made a vlog clarifying what happened, the deaf folks were using his charges to pick on me. And then comes RLM who says that my support of 2072 conflicted with my findings of major misdiagnoses of deaf people in the mental health area.
The thing were seeing is a sharp increase of desperation, like the thing you see when a pair of squirrels are cornered they get more vicious in their attacks, were seeing the same thing inflicted upon people who are out of the box like the 2072 supporters.
Finally passed the second reading. 23 yeah and 11 nay. It goes to the governor and the opponents have staged an all out attack on Mendoza.
http://economy4abc.blogspot.com/2010/08/sacramento-gone-wild-assemblyman-tony.html
Richard Roehm: you are correct. Those deaf extremists and radicals continue to con unsuspecting people on the realities of AB 2072, such as with the “eugenics” claim. If anything, those same deaf extremists and radicals who opposed AB 2072 perpetuate their own brand of eugenics, terrorize parents and legislators, and bully their own people.
In fact, Randy Economy is not even a journalist: any self-respecting journalist would have researched both sides of the bill, but he did not do that. He just focused on bashing Mendoza.
Senator Romero initially opposed AB 2072 but cast an AYE vote for the bill yesterday. In fact, Senator Romero was the main talking head against AB 2072 during legislative proceedings but apparently reversed her vote and there was no mention of Romero in Economy’s posting.
And he claims to have 1.5 million readers, too. Alexa.com strongly suggests otherwise.
Polanco and Romero probably reversed their positions when found about the flyer the extremists were handing out to their colleagues.
http://saveourdeafschools.org/DP3.pdf
Very stupid to put a veiled threat on the orange flyer that was handed out to members of the senate.
Richard Roehm: You are correct.
The flyer you mention contained the threat: “Your name maybe tainted s a Senator who promoted the WEAKENING and WIPING out of Deaf Culture and American Sign Language!”
Those deaf extremists and radicals do that to everyone who disagrees with them.
Tom Bertling was right.
Richard Roehm: Be sure to read this posting: http://kokonutpundits.blogspot.com/2010/08/california-academy-of-audiology.html
A common tactic utilized by deaf extremists and radicals is to fool people into believing that all or most children born with hearing loss are stone-deaf, when in fact, an extremely small number of children are born stone-deaf each year. Deaf extremist organizations such as the National Association of the Deaf are perpetuating gross ignorance, misinformation, and blatant lies and deceptions to the general public, to the hearing loss community, legislators, and most sadly, parents of children with hearing loss/deafness by using these deceptive practices.
Wow.. The ignorance, is all yours, not the Deafs’. Deaf people have NEVER made such a claim, and what you speak of is the very rationalization of Surgeons and Audiologists have made for pushing for an inferior, dangerous, and abusive procedure on babies BEFORE it can be determined whether or not they can utilize the residual hearing. The Oralist argument used to be based on the residual hearing of children to be maximized for best “benefit”, yet now they destroy that which they used to hold so dear..? And this makes sense to you? I find it appalling, that anyone would attack the NAD and attempt to label them “extremists”, as the very reason it was formed was in response to the Oralist attacks after the Milan conference, the findings of which have recently been challenged by NAD, and ultimately retracted by the International Congress because they finally admitted to the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and the continued failures or Oralism. AGBell Society should be seen for what it is and dismantled. For those who adhere to its agenda, I find it interesting that AGBell (the greatest traitor the Deaf-World has ever known), his descendant, who also was connected with AGBS, and who taught in the state department (proof of the political pull of this organization) was just recently found guilty, along with his wife, for DECADES of spying against the U.S., for CUBA! This is no surprise to the Deaf community but AGBS sought very quickly to distance their organization from the very bloodline that gave it life in the first place! This is what Oralists adhere to, this is why they ARE the extremists, and the traitors of both Deaf Americans AND this great nation. Having Audiologists forced to the front lines, to use the shock and denial of parents of deaf children, to indoctrinate them into their ideology and ensure the continuance of their agenda (as they’ve been doing for YEARS). Open YOUR eyes, and you just might see the abuse and discrimination you are supporting with your spoonfed Oralist “opinion”. That you think this is your educated opinion, shows just how brainwashed youve been! In closing, know this; to continue to have AGBS (and the Medical Model) as the “expert” on deafness is like having the KKK run the NAACP, and any and all organizations/colleges/businesses, etc the African American culture has established to combat the discrimination and marginalization of their own people.
Wow… You people never quit. “ASL extremists” shows just how far in left field you are. Read a book! Oralism in the U.S. and abroad has done major damage to the Deaf Culture and Community, and continues to do so today! This law is yet another method of colonialism and control. These medical “miracles” are nothing more than experiments that destroy every bit of residual hearing in the ear. The truth; cochlear implants only have 22 channels while hearing aids have 1000. Which means CI has a LONG way to go before making the claims you state here. Maybe instead of judging the Deaf based on a VERY limited understanding, you should look at what Hitler did to the DEAF, as Jews were not the only ones persecuted during this time. What was done here in US, wasnt much better. And it continues today with people like you. This has NOTHING to do with PARENTAL control and EVERYTHING to do with the Medical community’s control over the deaf population. Thats right, its all about the $ for you people, at the cost of “normal” development, socialization, and language. All the research shows the ERRORs of ORALISM. It was and is based on faulty logic. This law would only ensure that the parents get ALL their information from the Audiologist-it is Oralism that is the CULT here, and the Oralists who are to blame for disabling deaf children. If you had ANY clue about the reality of this discussion, you might have an inkling as to why this is NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE!
I got an angry email yesterday (as a candidate) and was directed to read this post. I wasn’t really in disagreement until I read this phrase “Some of these ASL crazies have even said that they would reject medical options that would help kids hear. Unbelievable!”
Wow. It’s not like that at all. Coclear doesn’t make you hear like everyone else. It will work for speech, but not so well for music, and this is where the research really started for me regarding Coclear. It turns out that the implant has fewer channels of information for the brain, and it is difficult for the brain to sort out the complexities of music. Add to that the fact that it does destroy residual hearing, and you have now traded your ability to hear what music you could before (obviously with headphones at a loud volume) for the ability to hear every day speech. I’m not sure I will be able to make that choice. My hearing loss will not respond to hearing aids though, so I will probably be faced with that decision someday.
You see, most deaf people aren’t completely deaf, and most deaf people utilize their residual hearing, and usually do so quite well. So, while I understand that Coclear needs to be implanted early in a child to help the brain learn to utilize sound (otherwise a person may never learn) you must consider the fact that you would be taking that child’s chance to really hear natural music away. Unless a child was absolutely, completely deaf, I don’t think that I would recommend this to parents without thoroughly explaining this fact. Music is an absolutely central part of life. If you don’t believe that, just close your eyes for a minute and try to imagine your life without it. Of course, many people do learn to enjoy music with Coclear, but I am told it really isn’t the same, by those who were hearing and are now deaf.
From what I understand, this is the sort of information that was being left out of the bill, and the sort of information that should be added. There is so much to learn about this new technology, and an implant is absolutely, in no way, the same as being completely hearing, nor is it without risk. I will probably get it when I finally need it, but only because I could never adequately learn sign language and my lip reading really does depend on what sound I can sort from the background noise. Truly though, I know plenty of deaf people who all contribute fantastically to both the hearing community and the deaf community, and having been exposed often to ASL, I find it to be a beautiful language. Perhaps even nicer than French. 😀 I just wanted to make sure that the hearing people in this discussion understood that there are many complexities to this argument, and that this choice has many different consequences either way.
Debbie,
The ASL cultists are not casually deaf. They are, well, more like a cult. They really don’t want folks to have any other options.
Our state is the only one that allows them to rule unfettered. This bill will give parents choice, and that is all anyone is asking for.
As Libertarians we should support choice, no?
Debbie Tharp:
Many people are easily swayed by claims that ASL and deaf culture were or are being threatened by cochlear implants, specific organizations and people, and fictional conspiracies. Like most communities and cultures, the deaf community and culture has its own extremists, and they often act like crazies.
According to Candy, who blogged extensively on AB 2072, and is from a deaf family that has used ASL for generations, Ella Mae Lentz, leader of CDNIAS (the group opposed to AB 2072), made the following comment to her followers in late September:
“If we start take money (from them), sue them, embarrass them, make their supporters who donate money to foundations, who donate money to their schools, make them embarrassed. Expose their error so they are embarrassed. They will back off.”
http://candysweetblog.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/lets-embarrass-them-said-_____/
According to Tayler Mayer (owner of two popular deaf web sites), a supporter of Ella Mae Lentz harassed him by contacting a domestic violence agency and made false claims about him.
http://www.ythree.com/?p=1005
Ella Mae Lentz openly encouraged and supported members of CDNIAS and Deaf Studies programs in California to harass people such as Candy and Mr. Mayer (among others); Ms. Lentz’s supporters contacted employers and domestic violence agencies in a deliberate effort to harass people into changing their minds about specific political issues, such as AB 2072. If you look at one of the links above provided by Richard Roehm above regarding a flyer that was distributed among CDNIAS members, you will find more threats made towards legislators regarding CDNIAS’ stance opposing AB 2072.
Debbie, do you approve of political practices that involve harassing people and organizations until they change their political opinion? Hope it never happens to you.
Regarding to the negative comments above about oralism, please read Miss Kat’s Mom blog: http://misskatsmom.blogspot.com/2010/11/myths-and-misunderstandings-part-2.html
And educate yourself about cochlear implants: http://cochlearimplantonline.com/site/
Best wishes to your political career.
Irritated by your ignorance:
your words: “to indoctrinate them into their ideology and ensure the continuance of their agenda (as they’ve been doing for YEARS).”
Keywords you used: “indoctrinate”, “ideology”, “agenda”
Donald Grushkin was a leader of the OpposeAB2072 group; he is also a high-profile Deaf b/vlogger, having both a blog and a YouTube account. Grushkin is also an employee of the California State University – Sacramento program, where he focuses on work related to “Deaf Studies.” Grushkin’s YouTube account represents California State University – Sacramento, as shown by his YouTube handle.
Donald Grushkin
California State University – Sacramento – http://edweb.csus.edu/eds/faculty_staff/grushkin_donald.html
DrDonGCSUS’ YouTube Channel – http://www.youtube.com/user/DrDonGCSUS
Grushkin appeared at the Edwin Black conference on eugenics in Sacramento. http://www.speroforum.com/a/34787/Author-Edwin-Black-to-lecture-on-the-endangered-deaf-community
Grushkin was visibly present during AB 2072 proceedings and testified his opposition to AB 2072.
Until recently, Grushkin was a member of the Deafhood Foundation, a non-profit led by Ella Mae Lentz (see comment above this one pertaining to Lentz’s “embarrassment” tactics). http://www.deafhoodfoundation.org/Deafhood/About_the_Foundation.html
In mid-October, Grushkin posted a video in YouTube directed towards Barry Sewell’s wife (the man featured in the OrangeJuiceBlog’s first publication about AB 2072); Grushkin donned a blonde wig and made sexually inappropriate comments about Barry Sewell to his wife, Crystal (whom is blonde). That video was removed over the weekend after Grushkin admitted to “victimizing” Crystal and offered an apology for his misconduct. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxHupt52znc
Grushkin also targeted Candy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cFAejwryA4
Grushkin admits, “I admit I have said some nasty things about some of you”
http://candysweetblog.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/in-a-while-crocodile/#comment-3893
Returning to your keywords, “indoctrinate”, “ideology”, and “agenda”, Grushkin has a clear vendetta against people who supported AB 2072; Grushkin has used his influence as a “Deaf Studies” professional at CSUS to post “nasty” comments online, which includes making sexually-graphic comments to the wife of a blogger/vlogger who supported AB 2072.
What do you think Grushkin teaches his college students?
Intolerance.
Richard Roehm:
Your comment above, dated August 17, 2010 at 4:50 PM: “[OpposeAB2072 group leaders] to pick on all deaf supporters of the bill in different ways.”
You have been proven correct. As Candy noted in her blog, Ella Mae Lentz utilizes harassment as a tactic against people and organizations as part of her advocacy efforts; recently, at least four Deaf Bilingual Coalition board (DBC) or Core Members actively participated in harassment against organizations and people.
The following DBC board members participated in online harassment against several people who supported AB 2072:
– Linda Slovick
– Ella Mae Lentz
– John F. Egbert
– Barbara DiGiovanni
– David O. Reynolds
http://www.dbcusa.org/index.php/DBC-Board/DBC-Board-of-Directors.html
– Linda Slovick: Slovick initially supported Ms. Lentz’s efforts to harass Candy by contacting her employer ONLY BECAUSE Candy supported AB 2072. Later, Slovich admitted to being misled and misinformed by her own group of DBC board members, and recanted her support of harassment as a tactic.
– Ella Mae Lentz has a long and notorious history in the deaf community as being a bully, engaging in deceptive practices, and using violence and harassment as part of her advocacy efforts. She has at one time or another, been a leader of the California Association of the Deaf, National Association of the Deaf, Deaf Bilingual Coalition, and an educator of the deaf. She once held Deafhood seminars with other DBC board members that produced questionable ethics and professionalism tactics, along with issues related to non-profit status. There are also several examples of Ms. Lentz’s deceptive practices outlined in Candy’s blog (Candysweetblog.wordpress.com), Mike McConnell’s blog (kokonutpundit.blogspot.com), and Barry Sewell’s (a former DBC core member) blog (theholism.blogspot.com), among others.
Below is a copied and pasted email from Ella Mae Lentz to Candy (http://candysweetblog.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/in-a-while-crocodile/#comment-3967)
“Candy,
You know I disagree with u. I know u disagree with me. BUT I hold what u said online responsible for the bad bad (yes my opinion) choice u made to publicly and persistently and constantly undermine the DEAF and parent centered oppose AB 2072 group’s efforts to stop the Only One Option corporations and professionals to totally control the Deaf children’s future for the sake of their pockets.
To me that’s cyberbullying in it’s worse form. Intentionally being on the side of the majority and oppressors to in attempt to squash the minority trying to ask for justice yes for ASL which is still far far far down in bein respected and practiced as a language especially in the Deaf domains where it was created and celebrated but denied and put down and continues to be so.
And you from out of CA intentionally draining our time and energies much needed to focus on fighting this subtle exploitation of our state and money, for what? Not for Deaf people but for the majority, to impress upon hearing politicians and the OOOO that you are unlike us monsters dummies and that you are on their side. Thst is definitely NOT commUNITY!
And if someone called the person coordinating the conference where u are to talk about ironically communications for Deaf people to object to your being given the recognition and honor to do the workshop after all what you have said and collaborated with enemies of Deaf people and ASL, I would say yes that would be justified.
But nothing more. Your family or life must NOT be threatened because that does not have to do with what u said.
I am sorry I have to say this. I know I am putting myself at a risk but I can’t just let this go on and on about measly small insignificant things without demanding that we at least agree on the bigger threats to us all!!!”
– John F. Egbert also has a long and notorious history employing harassment as part of his advocacy. In early 2008, Egbert attempted to have two popular bloggers banned from a deaf aggregator, merely because the two bloggers had different opinions about Egbert’s DBC group. Several former DBC members have also accused Egbert of being a bully and spreading false information about them and/or the DBC itself. Egbert has also produced blogs obsessively devoted against AG Bell Foundation (http://underthehill.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/). Earlier this past summer, Egbert apologized to DBC members for misusing the DBC’s official web site to post an article personally targeting Mike McConnell (http://kokonutpundits.blogspot.com/2010/07/deaf-bilingual-coalitions.html) – but did not apologize to McConnell. In Minnesota, where Egbert lives, the Minnesota DBC Chapter announced they had recently raised $3,000, presumably to be used to continue to harass other people and organizations for not sharing the same political philosophies as DBC board members.
– Barbara DiGiovanni is a teacher of the deaf at the Rochester (NY) School for the Deaf, and posted inflammatory and misleading comments online about oralism, oral deaf children, cochlear implants, and children with CIs and their familys, as displayed on Barry Sewell’s former blog, DBCFacts.org, in which an AOL AIM conversation between DiGiovanni and David Eberwein (a teacher at one of the California Schools for the Deaf) featured derogratory comments about cochlear implants, children with implants and their families. Also, DiGiovanni has posted videos in which she and two adult males appeared intoxicated as the two men removed their pants, addressed by Jeannie Johnson (http://deafpundit.wordpress.com/2009/05/24/let-me-show-you-reality/).
DiGiovanni has encouraged and supported harassment against Tayler Mayer (ironically, he opposed AB 2072), operator and owner of two popular deaf aggregators (Deafread.com, Deafvideo.tv); she has left comments in YouTube videos, making false claims about Mayer; another Rochester, NY resident, Patti Durr, has admitted to contacting a domestic violence about Mayer; Mayer feels Durr personally harassed him because he did not agree with her opinions and demands. Both DiGiovanni and Durr are seen as Ella Mae Lentz’s henchwomen, utilizing harassment against people that do not agree with their views; yet, DiGiovanni recently announced at Candy’s blog she did not support Lentz’s harassment tactics (http://candysweetblog.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/in-a-while-crocodile/).
To demonstrate Patti Durr and Barb DiGiovanni’s use of misleading statements and comments as part of their harassment tactics, below is a copied and pasted segment of DiGiovanni’s YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/avbria) comment made in Patti Durr’s YouTube account:
“Very important message re: being accountable for cyberbullying behavior by Brian Tayler Mayer” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVlLj8bE_FE)
Read Mayer’s blog covering the DBC group, including DiGiovanni and Durr, and misuse and abuse of the “audism” label – http://www.ythree.com/?p=564
All of the above participated in the infamous 2008 Milwaukee DBC Convention, which was staged next to an AG Bell Foundation Conference taking place; as the two groups’ conferences proceeded, DBC leaders attempted to bait AG Bell Foundation members by making derogratory, public effigies about oral deaf people. National Association of the Deaf president, Bobbi Lee Scoggins was a keynote speaker at the DBC Convention.
– David A. Reynolds is a leader of the California Association of the Deaf, as well as a leading spokesperson for the OpposeAB2072 group, along with being a DBC Board Member. Earlier this year, Reynolds and another CAD Core Member attempted to blindside Karl White (EHDI leader) by staging a psuedo interview that was videotaped for the sole purpose of publishing the video online in hopes of harassing White into changing his support for AB 2072. That video appeared first on Facebook (as reported by Barry Sewell and others) before disappearing; nonetheless, the intent of the video was to discredit White by staging a psuedo interview/confrontation.
There are more examples online, too many to list here in terms of DBC board members approving and utilizing harassment tactics as part of their advocacy efforts.
for ur information those people who say they give optional parent choice which they didnt give information abt A.S.L of course they want Money that from yall s pocket – truth deaf culture is best education than what they provide to those parents- we have better sense than their <Sound isnt really important as Vision, Taste ,Feel and Smell without those u will only able to hear without understand what four of sense- go ahead remove those four and only live in hear , for sure u ask those people who born blind and they told me that they wish deaf instead blind because Sound help them Nothing at all … that s truth .. .those and this company has no knowlege of deafness people…dont belive their lie thur their Sound of Voice , i use my eyes to see the truth for whom use ear to hear the lie without Vision of your own eyes that where and problem is justice woman is blindfold which should be take blindfold away then there will be Truth…