“The earliest influx of new arrivals started in the mid 1840’s when Europe felt the throes of a bitter famine.
This FIRST wave of immigrants – primarily Northern Europeans from Ireland, England, Germany and Scandinavia – fled starvation, feudal governments, and the social upheaval brought about by the Industrial Revolution.
A SECOND wave of immigrants streamed out of Southern and Eastern Europe from 1890-1924. Along with fleeing the burden of high taxes, poverty, and overpopulation, these “new” immigrants were also victims of oppression and religious persecution. Jews living in Romania, Russia, and Poland were being driven from their homes by a series of pogroms, riots and laws enforced by a Czarist government.
Similarly the Croats and Serbs in Hungary, the Poles in Germany, and the Irish persecuted under English rule all saw America as a land of freedom and opportunity.
Furthermore, from 1892 to 1954, over 12 million immigrants entered the United States from Ellis Island.
While most immigrants entered through New York Harbor, the most popular destination of steamship companies, others sailed into ports such as Boston, San Francisco and Savannah.
FIRST AND SECOND class passengers who arrived in New York were NOT required to undergo the inspection process unless they were sick or had legal problems. These passengers underwent a cursory inspection aboard ship, the theory being that if people could afford to purchase a first or second class ticket, they were less likely to become a public charge. The government felt that more affluent passengers would not end up in institutions, hospitals or become a burden to the state.
The STEERAGE and THIRD CLASS passengers were transported from the pier by ferry or barge to Ellis Island where everyone would undergo a medical and legal inspection.
If the immigrants’ papers were in order and they were in reasonably good health, the Ellis Island INSPECTION PROCESS WOULD LAST APPROXIMATELY THREE TO FIVE HOURS. The inspections took place in the Registry Room, where doctors would briefly scan every immigrant for obvious physical ailments.”
Some points to consider about immigration from the PAST to immigration of the PRESENT:
1) 12 million immigrants were processed which represented a greater percentage of the TOTAL and Past US population of 92 million from the 1910 Census vs the current percent of 10.8 million undocumented immigrants estimated to be in the US today out of our total US population of over 300 million.
2) Practically nothing was known about the past immigrants. About 45-50% of the 10.8 million current undocumented overstayed their Visas, and thus a lot is known about them by our government, and these people had background checks and other information verified.
3) Past immigrants were fleeing starvation, their governments, and social upheavals. There was no overriding argument that they go back and improve their countries and their societies.
4) Past Wealthier passengers were NOT inspected. Poorer Past immigrants were processed in about 3-5 HOURS. Current documented and undocumented immigrants have to wait several years, sometimes 10-15 YEARS before they can received proper documentation. In the meantime, the economic needs of the US are pulling immigrants into America in spite of the ineffective and ineffective immigration processing system currently in place.
5) There was no guarantee that past immigrants would become contributing members of society. There are several independent studies that show that the vast majority of TODAY’s undocumented immigrants are contributing to our Economy, PAY MORE in taxes and fees than they receive in services, and they have a positive impact to the pocketbook of individual American households.
6) The Majority of Past immigrants did NOT have established roots in America. The current 10.8 million undocumented immigrants live in households of mixed status (documented and undocumented). This means that they have established roots, where one spouse is a citizen or documented immigrant, or children are US citizens (about 4 million US born citizens live in mixed status households) or Both.
7) Again, the children of past immigrants did NOT have established roots in America, and were not familiar with our American values and customs. Today’s undocumented immigrants consist of about 1.5 million undocumented children who were brought to the US as children, and who have grown up with our American Values and pledging Allegiance to our US Flag on a daily basis, who want to serve in our military as adults, in whom we as a society have already invested in their elementary education, and who many times do not even know they are undocumented until they grow up.
8) In the past, neither the US nor the rest of the industrialized world was facing a graying of its population, as it currently does. Currently, the US will have about 75-80 million baby boomers retiring in the next couple of years. Thus, to maintain the viability of the US Social Security, and the competiveness of America, and America’s standard of living, America will have to replace the 75-80 million baby boomers that will be retiring, but this will have to done in competition with other nations that will also need to replace their retiring workers with younger workers, and who in spite of this significant, but short-term, economic recession are attempting to attract the young immigrant labor force.
9) In the past, millions of dollars were spent to facilitate the quick processing of these newly arrived immigrants in a matter of HOURS. Today we spend BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars to try to deport people who are contributing to America’s well-being, and who live in mixed status households, which then separates families or which leaves US citizen children in terror of having their families broken up, or which leaves these US citizen children in an uncertain future.
10) In the past, we expedited the past immigrants’ entry INTO the US. Today we continue to pursue people and a failed policy that wastes America’s limited resources to try to REMOVE people OUT OF the US. For example, Federal border enforcement costs have gone up about 8-10 times within the last decade. And under the Obama administration, the federal government has stepped up enforcement, and the expenditures have increased tremendously, and are at the highest levels than they have ever been under any other past administration.
11) In the past, Americans could recognize when course correction needed to be done for the well-being of America. Today, we try to follow the failed course of attempting to deport people who are contributing and knowing that at this rate it would take about 30 years just to deport. And yet we allow the politicians to think more about how they can win the next election even at the expenses of obstructing progress or solutions that work for the well-being of America.
.
Finally, we know that we have an undocumented immigration issue. But we disagree on the HOW to solve.
But many people seem to offer what I think has been demonstrated to be a non-working solution (Deportation), and seem to argue for PROCESS (the process of deportation) at the EXPENSE of a REAL SOLUTION that would allow us to focus on our real issues or that take the TRUE FACTS into consideration.
The thinking goes something like this. They should get out and get in line, and start all over. We have no problem with them (the undocumented immigrants), if they follow the rules.
- Well, my understanding is that as part of the CURRENT process that someone who came here undocumented or overstayed their VISA (This is a Civil Infraction and NOT a Felony), CAN PETITION AND HAVE their status adjusted FROM UNDOCUMENTED TO DOCUMENTED/LEGAL status, AFTER paying the required processing fees plus the PENALTIES for coming over undocumented or for overstaying their VISA, after meeting certain conditions . . . and yet a major hurdle or condition seems to be one of TIME . . . sometimes waiting 10-15 years.
- If so, then it seems to me that Comprehensive Immigration Reform (CIR) IS CONTEMPLATED WITHIN the CURRENT process, and we could adjust status within the CURRENT rules, and comprehensive immigration reform would do THIS EXPEDITIOUSLY, if only our government officials acted more as leaders of a nation rather than politicians looking out for their own personal interests.
.
Francisco “Paco” Barragan (My opinions only and not those of any group)
Santa Ana, CA
You are a VERY smart man Mr.Barragan… But you have left out the reason why immigrants from south of the border are different from immigrants of the past… They are catered too!
Welfare
Education
Social justice ideology
Where immigrants of the past where treated like dirt, the immigrants from south of the border are treated as the customer and the US citizens comes second to them!
Big difference!
Hey Michelle, check your facts!
Illegal immigrants are not eligible for welfare: http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/archives/2008/01/post_80.html
What the hecksy is social justice ideology? Don’t just copy-paste whatever you read on Glenn Beck’s white board. Is it the idea that humans are deserving of human treatment? Sorry, that’s not a 21st century idea.
Education? Old-school immigrants were eligible as well.
Why don’t we just make it easier for these new immigrants to become legal instead of wasting money chasing them away? There’s obviously a demand for them here, otherwise they wouldn’t keep coming.
I am not going to get into what Social justice means look it up!
There was no public education system in the late 1800’s/ early 1900’s (look that one up as well)
“Why don’t we just make it easier for these new immigrants to become legal instead of wasting money chasing them away? There’s obviously a demand for them here, otherwise they wouldn’t keep coming.”
Tell that to the people who have been waiting 5-10 years to get legal status here!
“Illegal immigrants are not eligible for welfare:”
What do you call free maturity? Illegal immigrants get welfare checks for the kids every day that is why 30% of all welfare use is in California!
I would suggest you go down to any welfare office in Orange County and then we will talk.
@MQ:
You state, “There was no public education system in the late 1800′s/ early 1900′s (look that one up as well)”
My Response:
ANOTHER FALSE STATEMENT by MICHELLE QUINN as Public Education was in existence during the time that MQ tries to deny its existence.
1. “The most preliminary form of [PUBLIC EDUCATION] was in existence in the 1600s in the New England colonies of Massachusetts, Connecticut and New Hampshire.”
2. “The [FIRST PUBLICLY SUPPORTED] secondary school in the United States was the Boston Latin School, founded in 1635.”
3. “Jefferson was the first American leader to suggest creating a [PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM]. His ideas formed the basis of education systems developed in the 19th century.” (FYI – Michelle Quinn 19th century means in the 1800’s.)
@ MQ:
ADDITIONALLY, Public Assistance (Welfare) is only available for US citizens or Legal Residents. Now granted there are households that consist of MIXED status households, but again, welfare is ONLY available for US Citizens or Legal Residents in need.
A) More importantly, there is a NEGATIVE Misconception that Latinos/Hispanics/Mexicans use the most welfare. This is a FALSE.
B) There are negative and false assumptions and stereotypes of the economic participation/contributions by Latinos and of our values.
C) “Looking at California for example where the greatest majority of Latinos resides.
For example, “in 1990 Latinos had the lowest welfare use of any group; Latinos receiving public assistance represented 29% percent of all Latinos in poverty. By contrast, in other groups, those receiving public assistance formed a much higher percentage, ranging from 61 percent for non-Hispanic Whites, to 75% for African-Americans.
Thanks to welfare reform in the late 1990s, by 2000 the welfare rates for all groups had dropped. Still, continuing the 1990 picture, a far lower percentage of Latinos in poverty received public assistance in 2000 than non-Hispanic Whites or African-Americans.” This was 17.2% for Latinos; 36.8% for Non-Hispanic Whites, and 24.5 for African-Americans.”
For 60 years, three generations, from 1940 – 2000, the data shows “that Latino males have been the most active element in the state’s labor force”.
“Employment in the private sector generates wealth, while employment in the public sector basically redistributes wealth. From 1940 to 2000 Latino males counted in the census have been by far more likely to be employed in the private sector than non-Hispanic whites, Asian/Pacific Islanders, or African-Americans. Again, for nearly three generations, Latino males have been the most active element in the workforce participating in the wealth-generating private sector.”
“Also from 1940-2000, Latino households were far more likely than non-Hispanic white, African-American, or Asian/Pacific Islander households to be composed of couples with children.”
Based on Census data…see “La Nueva California – Latinos in the Golden State” by Dr. David E. Hayes-Bautista pages 74-76.
Francisco “Paco” Barragan
Santa Ana, CA
I love the spin’s!
Public education in the 1800s worked as a form of teaching children to work in factories!
During the industrial revolution immigrant children worked in factories, they did not have all the social welfare programs that they have today. Immigrants of the past DID NOT have food stamps, ETF checks and childcare!
I have no problem with immigrants, I have a real problem paying for people who walked across a border, while others wait for years to have the same privilege.
It is a fact just in Orange Country alone that most of the Welfare recipients are either the children of illegal immigrants or illegal immigrants.
Illegal immigrants do get welfare and you can spin it all sorts of way’s. The fact is that one needs only to go to any welfare office in California to figure that one out!
OR maybe illegal immigrants are just overflowing at the Orange Country Welfare Office, but I think with the extreme anger of the American people over illegal immigration.. I doubt it!
Arizona today did not lose the battle, because the American people just realized that they are second class citizens when it come’s to their government and that is not going to fly for too much longer.
You cannot force the America people to follow the rules when you allow foreign nationalist’s to break them!
I think without a doubt the Federal Government has gone to WAR with it’s citizens!
@ MQ:
I think you miss the larger picture.
It is instructive to keep the following in mind, AZ SB 1070 has been a flawed and unconstitutional law from the beginning, since when it was signed in April 23.
1) After the law was passed, because of the protests, within 7 days several amendments where made to delete/amend some of the very obvious egregious constitutional violations, and the judge alluded to these amendments in the first page of her ruling.
2) Today, the judge ruled some of the more significant parts unconstitutional.
We all recognize we have a problem. But I think we all disagree on the how to solve because I think we many times allow ourselves to be swayed by simplistic comments or slogans that don’t do anything to address the issue.
It is important that we keep in mind that flawed unconstitutional laws will only result in flawed and unconstitutional outcomes, and we should ensure that we do not go down that path regardless of what our personal philosophical/political views might be.
In my opinion, District Judge Susan Bolton ruled properly and struck a proper balance.
I think she recognized not just that several significant parts were unconstitutional, but she also realized that overstaying Visas or entering without authorization is a Civil Infraction, and NOT a Felony, and she was NOT willing to violate the Constitutional protections that Americans and legal residents enjoy.
If we say breaking the law is illegal, why would we violate our Constitutional protections by breaking the law in the most worst possible way. We should not violate Constitutional protections.
There are better ways of dealing with this issue in a way that do not violate our US Constitution.
Francisco “Paco” Barragan (my opinions only and not those of any group)
Santa Ana, CA
“t is instructive to keep the following in mind, AZ SB 1070 has been a flawed and unconstitutional law from the beginning, since when it was signed in April 23.”
MQ:
If it was so unconstitutional why did the federal law suite not state that? Stop trying to abuse the constitution. The constitution was never meant to harm its own people to protect foreign nationalists and that includes myself. I did not hold and nor should I have held the same rights as a US citizen until I became a US citizen. The fact that the Federal Government are stopping Arizona from protecting US Citizens is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!
I think Arizona wasted its time amending the law, the American people should have realized by now that the federal government has been corrupted by unions, lobbyists and special interest groups like yourself Mr. F . Non-Profits are not the only Organizations that make money off illegal immigration.
“It is important that we keep in mind that flawed unconstitutional laws will only result in flawed and unconstitutional outcomes, and we should ensure that we do not go down that path regardless of what our personal philosophical/political views might be.”
MQ says:
It is important to keep in mind that lawyers and judges dictate how the constitution can be abused. We need to remove activist’s and paid off puppets from our courts!
We also need to keep an eye on who is dean of our law schools… UCI new school of Law is a brilliant example of that. The left wing social justice nut head of UCI law school sued Laguna Beach to stop them from trying to cut down on dangerous mentally ill homeless people from harassing the residents! An ACLU scumbag being paid by the taxpayer and at the same time attacking them using and abusing the law!
“In my opinion, District Judge Susan Bolton ruled properly and struck a proper balance.”
MQ says:
And the balance would be where? Citizens need to carry ID, non-Citizens do not. Citizen’s need to have a social security number to pay taxes. Non-Citizens can work under the table.. Shall I keep going with the balance?
Of course you love the fact she stopped illegal Aliens from being deported. I am sure you have many reason for having that opinion. The Arizona Citizens want the illegal Aliens removed because they have become a serious threat to them. Its that simple for them, with you it’s more complicated than that… Right?
I support Arizona 110% and hope they do not give up the fight for equal justice!
The law has been infiltrated by the extreme left who HATE America, its values and its people. The left in this country are very powerful, educated and smart and they will use the Law to destroy this country in what ever way they can!
@ MQ
You state, “If it was so unconstitutional why did the federal law suite not state that? Stop trying to abuse the constitution.”
My Response:
a) Another FALSE statement by you. Read line #8 of the Judge’s ruling, it clearly states “on July 6, 2010, the Unites States filed a Complaint with this Court challenging the [CONSTITUTIONALITY] of S.B. 1070…”
b) Ignoring Constitutional protections or our Constitutional due-process as you want to do MQ is to abuse the Constitution.
@MQ:
You state, “I think Arizona wasted its time amending the law, the American people should have realized by now that the federal government has been corrupted by unions, lobbyists and special interest groups like yourself Mr. F.”
My Response:
c) I am glad that we still live in a country where our US Constitution matters, and that its enforcement is not based on “public perception” of what it is or how it should be interpreted and enforced . . .
d) NONE of the GROUPS that you mentioned are responsible for interpreting the Constitutionality of a law. This is the domain of the courts.
e) Interesting that I a number of ONE, in your eyes now consist of a Special INTEREST GROUP. Come on MQ, You have to have a better talking point than that, preferably one that is grounded in reality.
@ MQ
You state, “It is important to keep in mind that lawyers and judges dictate how the US Constitution can be abused. We need to remove activist’s and paid off puppets from our courts!”
My Response:
f) My…are you talking about shopping for judges that suit your narrow and limited and Unconstitutional Agenda…very dangerous precedent indeed . . . sounds like you are looking for a puppet and not a judge.
g) This notion of “activist” Judges is a very FALSE notion. If we did not have so called “activist” judges we would still have: i) slavery; ii) segregated schools; iii) prohibition against interracial marriages; iv) women denied the right vote; v) African-Americans being denied the right to vote ETC, ETC ETC.
MQ says:
“And the balance would be where? Citizens need to carry ID, non-Citizens do not. Citizen’s need to have a social security number to pay taxes. Non-Citizens can work under the table..”
My Response:
h) Stop this FALSE propaganda – Undocumented immigrants have NO greater rights, and in fact have LESS rights even in hearings in front of immigration judges.
i) Citizens, legal residents AND undocumented immigrants need to carry ID too, for example to board a plane, drive a car, verify age if purchasing alcohol, etc.
The difference is that AZ SB 1070 was attempting to require LOCAl police officers to ask for Immigration Papers (a FEDERAL responsibility), and this would have been implemented disproportionately against Latinos, and more importantly most likely in violation of due-process and equal protection under the law.
@MQ
You state, “with you it’s more complicated than that… Right?”
My Response:
With me as with others it is very simple . . . don’t trample on the US Constitution and its protections, to meet narrow agendas or to place non-solution band-aids.
@ MQ:
You state, “The law has been infiltrated by the extreme left who HATE America, its values and its people.”
My Response:
Again, Stop with the simplistic slogans and False Propaganda.
I think that as Americans we would be better-off with a Left-leaning person that protects our US Constitution; than a Right-leaning one that would violate our US Constitution, our American values and principles to suit personal, narrow and unconstitutional agendas.
Don’t trample on the US Constitution and its protections, to meet narrow agendas or to place non-solution band-aids.
MQ says:
With you Mr. F it’s all about using and perverting the constitution to attack and abuse American Citizens rights and protection. The constitution will prevail in this law suite. That is why the Judge passed it on! She had the ability to remove the supposed unconstitutional parts of the law. She did not! Why do you think she passed it on to a jury?
“I think that as Americans we would be better-off with a Left-leaning person that protects our US Constitution; than a Right-leaning one that would violate our US Constitution, our American values and principles to suit personal, narrow and unconstitutional agendas.”
YOU are the left Mr. F. the ruling class made up of unions, lobbyists, socialists, environmentalists, Illegal Alien advocates, crooks and the very, very rich. Saying we would be better off with the left is like saying the drug cartels would do a better job running Mexico.
The right and the independent are made up of honest folks who believe in EQUAL JUSTICE. Immigrants like myself who are street smart and know a Con when I see it!
As far as propaganda goes,,, OK sure I am all about propaganda. To be more simplistic, YOU are full of the same rhetoric that makes Al Sharpen the great leader that he is NOT!
Have a lovely day Mr. F!
With you Mr. F it’s all about using and perverting the constitution to attack and abuse American Citizens rights and protection.
You and some of your allies, Quinn, have a twisted little view of the Constitution. I guess in your mind it’s just your little wish list, your little bag of magic tricks.
The Constitution is not there to “protect” you from the presence of folks you don’t like, folks who might be from another country, are having a hard time with the legal technicalities of residency, and are mostly just working hard and contributing to our society.
The Constitution IS there to protect our privacy and civil liberties. All of us. Even the foreigners amongst us.
“Immigration Papers”
MQ says:
Its GREEN CARD… There are no immigration PAPERS. Stating PAPERS is just a nice trick the illegal alien advocates like to use to make it sound like NAZi Germany. It is FEDERAL Law Mr. F that all immigrants shall carry legal identification.
Tut tut!
@ MQ
you say, “Immigration Papers…Its GREEN CARD… There are no immigration PAPERS. Stating PAPERS is just a nice trick the illegal alien advocates like to use to make it sound like NAZi Germany. It is FEDERAL Law Mr. F that all immigrants shall carry legal identification…Tut tut!”
My Response:
Since you want to play the semantics game Michelle Quinn:
A) It is neither Immigration Papers, nor GREEN CARD…The law and Judge repeatedly refers to “Registration Papers”.
B) It has NEVER been in dispute that immigrants are required to carry their “registration papers”. What is at dispute is WHO can ask, TO WHOM, Where and under what basis, and the NEGATIVE IMPACT it would have on Federal Enforcement Priorities, or on Civil Liberties of US, Citizens or Legal Residents.
As Judge Bolton stated, “The United States asserts, and the Court agrees, that “the federal government has long rejected a system by which aliens’ papers are routinely demanded and checked.” (Pl.’s Mot. at 26.)11 The Court finds that this requirement imposes an unacceptable burden on lawfully-present aliens…Federal resources will be taxed and [DIVERTED] from federal enforcement priorities”
C) And the issue is NOT what you Call it (Immigration Papers; Green Card; Registration Papers), but the Effect the Unconstitutional provisions of this law would have:
i) They would be in violation of the Supremacy/Preemption Clause of the US Constitution.
ii) They would Violate Constitutional protections which are MEANT TO PROTECT CIVIL LIBERTIES..rightfully the Court HAS BLOCKED WARRANTLESS ARRESTS – otherwise, regardless of what you call the documents used to verify immigration status, this would be like NAZI Germany.’
Some people have called me RIGHT-WING and others have called -Me LEFT-WING. I told that to my son, and he says that that makes me a Bird.
That’s just too great, Paco, I’ve got to remember that.
I will get back to you!
“The Constitution is not there to “protect” you from the presence of folks you don’t like, folks who might be from another country, are having a hard time with the legal technicalities of residency, and are mostly just working hard and contributing to our society.
The Constitution IS there to protect our privacy and civil liberties. All of us. Even the foreigners amongst us.”
I don’t need protection from people I don’t like (Though to be honest I don’t know anyone I do not like) I can very much defend myself as you well know!
The constitution is meant to protect my rights as a US citizen from dictators, lobbyists, Politicians, crooks and unions who want to control what I say, do, and earn!
“It is neither Immigration Papers, nor GREEN CARD…The law and Judge repeatedly refers to “Registration Papers”.”
MQ says:
Its referred to as an “Alien registration Card”. Papers again are what the left use to pervert the truth. NO IMMIGRANT CARRIES PAPERS OF ANY TYPE!
”
i) They would Violate Constitutional protections which are MEANT TO PROTECT CIVIL LIBERTIES..rightfully the Court HAS BLOCKED WARRANTLESS ARRESTS – otherwise, regardless of what you call the documents used to verify immigration status, this would be like NAZI Germany.’”
The court blocked the law only because it is a FEDERAL LAW she could not dismiss it because she would then be dismissing a law that has not been overturned. It is federal Law that an Alien must carry legal identification at all times!
Your whole logic is completely ridiculous. What you are stating is that one group of people being illegal Aliens should not need to should legal ID because they don’t have any. They should be over looked because after all they are just here to work and feed their families!
The fact that you would equate the police and border patrol officers as Nazi’s is STUPID. I have been questioned many times by border patrol and once by a police officer regarding my Immigration status. They where very courteous and I had no problem handing over my “ALIEN GREEN CARD”.
@MQ:
You say, “The court blocked the law only because it is a FEDERAL LAW…It is federal Law that an Alien must carry legal identification at all times!
My Response:
1) TRUE. It is a Federal Law (I AM GLAD YOU RECOGNIZE THAT); and All immigrants must carry identification at all TIMES (That’s what I have been saying too – and this is not in dispute).
2) NOW add to that, the fact that since this is a FEDERAL Law, enforcement by a STATE would be PREEMPTED by Federal Law . . .
Per our Constitution the State does NOT have “jurisdiction” on this, and attempts to violate the Supremacy Clause/Preemption clause are unconstitutional. Per the Court, “The Court by no means disregards Arizona’s interests in controlling illegal immigration and addressing the concurrent problems with crime including the trafficking of humans, drugs, guns, and money. Even though Arizona’s interests may be consistent with those of the federal government, it is not in the public interest for Arizona to enforce preempted laws. . . The Court therefore finds that preserving the status quo through a preliminary injunction is less harmful than allowing state laws that are likely preempted by federal law to be enforced.”
@MQ:
You say, “Your whole logic is completely ridiculous. What you are stating is that one group of people being illegal Aliens should not need to should legal ID because they don’t have any.”
My Response:
STOP MISCONSTRUING. Everyone’s is required to show ID for certain things.
@MQ:
You say, “The fact that you would equate the police and border patrol officers as Nazi’s is STUPID. I have been questioned many times by border patrol and once by a police officer regarding my Immigration status.”
My Response:
Exactly. You were questioned, but NOT ARRESTED WITHOUT A WARRANT.
STOP MISCONSTRUING AGAIN. What I said is that if we start doing WARRANTLESS ARRESTS as AZ SB 1070 wanted to do, (this would be in VIOLATION OF OUR CONSTITUTION.) . . and YES ANYTIME we violate our US CONSTITUTION and INFRINGE ON OUR CIVIL PROTECTIONS, AND CONDUCT WARRANTLESS ARRESTS, this gets us closer to a police/NAZI state. Read my post above.
And the Court recognized the seriousness of it and blocked it.
The Court allowed some provisions to stand with respect to immigration issues, which in my general understanding are as follows:
i) In effect prohibits limiting enforcement of federal immigration laws. No city in AZ can prevent the Federal government from enforcing immigration laws.
i) Permits state officials to work with Fed officials
ii) Allows legal residents to sue if any official or agency adopts a policy of restricting enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law
iii) Amends the crime of human smuggling
iv) Creates a crime for stopping a vehicle to pick up day laborers, if it impedes the normal movement of traffic.
v) Amends crime of knowing employment of unauthorized aliens
vi) Amends the crime of intentional employment of unauthorized aliens.
vii) Amends the requirements for checking employment eligibility
viii) Creates the gang and immigration intelligence team enforcement mission fund
From a philosophical perspective I or society may have issues with some of these provisions, but I/us must respect the Court’s ruling, its subsequent appeals and decisions. And if we are unsatisfied then I/us must attempt to use the legal process and change the law.
For your Information, I do not fear police officers, or border patrol officers (Many of my friends, and family work in law enforcement, military or in security agencies.)
But there are proper ways for FEDERAL officers and LOCAL officers to work together in enforcing our laws. And I want them to work together. This creates greater effectiveness and efficiencies, but this must be done within our CONSTITUTIONAL FRAMEWORK.
On the other hand and based on the evidence, we are wasting Billions and Billions of dollars on failed policies in targeting individual that are contributing to our society, and who want to continue contributing in a legal manner, and which is necessary for our nation’s well-being to address comprehensively.
But I will always be opposed to violations of our Constitutional values and American principles especially when done to give the appearance that an issue is being addressed when it is not.
Francisco “Paco” Barragan (My opinions only and not those of any group)
Santa Ana, CA
“But I will always be opposed to violations of our Constitutional values and American principles especially when done to give the appearance that an issue is being addressed when it is not.”
MQ says:
I will get back to you on the whole matter. For now I will just address the above.
The issue not being addressed is that fact the feds in refusing to do their job has push Arizona to do it for them.
Millions of illegal immigrants mostly from Mexico (I think it is 60%) have entered this country illegally while thousands wait 5/10 years on a waiting list. The issue that is not being brought forward is the fact that million’s of poor, uneducated people are wards of the American people. We educate their kids and pay for numerous entitlements while American families pay for the same services. What is not being addressed is that a population of people are dined, wined and catered to for federal money whether it is ridiculous housing non-profits or maturity wards.
Today I observed a hugh Mexican flag being waved by the crowd protesting Arizona’s Law 1070 and all I could think was “what a bunch of morons”.
Mr. F. and MQ,
I am not trying to begin any argument, or join yours, however, I am merely trying to understand your points so as to join your discussion, or feud rather, with an intelligent reply.
Mr. F., are you saying that the constitution states that protection of civil liberties is to be courteously extended to those who are mere visitors to our country, no matter the duration they have been established here? Would you agree that many of the illegal immigrants do not pay into the federal system that is in place to establish the public assistance? i.e. health care and education? Are there large groups of individuals who are sabotaging the system set in place?
MQ, do you think that AZ is premature in any way of encouraging the laws of the federal government to act in a way that would minimize the frustration of the economic struggle from the illegal immigrants? Would there be a better way to establish the understanding of how these factors are effecting those who actually pay into the federal system?
My only thought after reading all of your banters comes to this conclusion: neither of you have concluded any change, yet are still establishing your points to persuade the other. That is trifle, and your time would seemingly be best spent discussing a middle ground that establishes new merit and new attainability. If either feels too far from a compromise, neither will move. For those who still choose not to adhere, there should be forcible consequences that both would be effected by. To punish one and reward the other doesn’t ever work either.
Just a thought and no need to reply, please further your banter, if you choose, it is at least good for entertainment value.
DJLsD
@ DJLsD:
Welcome to the discussion.
I am out on a hurry, but please check back here . . . I will answer you, and will Provide the following:
1) Links to the independent studies that show that undocumented immigrants pay more in taxes (there are several mechanisms by which this happens) than they receive in services.
2) The Solutions that I have proposed that I believe make sense for America and our long-term economic well-being.
Francisco “Paco”
Student alleges threat by Rohrabacher after immigration meeting – OC Register.
http://www.ocregister.com/news/bravo-496285-meeting-rohrabacher.html
some arguments/comments there reminded me of my post above.
Damn, I’d meant to write about that but haven’t had time.