Costa Mesa Mayor Allan Mansoor is proposing to impose and require that ALL businesses in Costa Mesa comply with E-Verify. As you will see this is a burdensome, anti-business, and ineffective program that is not yet working as intended, and which should not be used in isolation.
Luckily it seems that “saner” minds may yet prevail and save businesses in Costa Mesa from a burdensome regulation that does not yet address any real issue nor by itself, but instead as others have suggested, it seems is intended to serve as a “stepping-stone” and advance the Mayor’s higher political office ambitions at the expense of Costa Mesa Businesses and its residents.
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WHAT IS E-VERIFY?:
E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows an employer, using information reported on an employee’s Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification, to determine the eligibility of that employee to work in the United States.
- For most employers, the use of E-Verify is voluntary and limited to determining the employment eligibility of new hires only and this is very important, it is not for determining status of current employees, nor for transfers.
- E-Verify is mandatory for some employers, such as those employers with federal contracts or subcontracts that contain the Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) E-Verify clause and employers in certain states.
- Of employees whose employment eligibility is checked through E-Verify, 96.9 percent are confirmed automatically as eligible to work in the United States.
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ISSUES:
Costa Mesa Mayor Allan Mansoor is proposing to impose and require that ALL businesses in Costa Mesa comply with E-Verify.
- Yet when one review’s the E-verify program closely and how it is managed, you will understand this is an Anti-business, and ineffective and inefficient regulation to force down on businesses – NOW and in ISOLATION. (Based on all other non-partisan independent information reviewed, I believe E-Verify should be more appropriately used as part of Comprehensive Immigration Reform, which includes strengthening the borders and coasts and improving on the E-Verify program.)
- And then there is question as to why, if the Mayor was the Mayor for several years he did not propose this before? Is it because he knows that even if this is an ineffective and inefficient program, he will NOT have to deal with the repercussions, and with the negative impacts to businesses, as he hopes to “move on” to another government position.
- Other local cities have implemented, but I doubt that they are aware of the most recent , timely and relevant audit findings by the Office of Inspector General (OIG) of January 2010 which I was able to research yesterday, when I was informed by Vern Nelson, Editor-Orange Juice Blog that E-Verify was going to be discussed.…Audit Findings are highlighted below, and with a link to the full audit report.
- Also at last night’s Radio Orange Juice interview, Honorable Wendy Leece, Council Member-Costa Mesa was there along with: historian / research assistant Gericault; professor/author/Latino activist Humberto Caspa; and former mayor / land use planner / OJ blogger Sandy “La Femme Wonkita” Genis.
It was “Orange Juice Refreshing” to know that Council Member Leece was open to considering this new information, and how it directly impacts the proposal in front of the Costa Mesa council. She was also appreciative that we found this timely and relevant audit report and were sharing with her.
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INNEFECTIVE Burden and ANTI-Business with no real IMPACT:
1) Employers must register with DHS (Dept of Homeland Security) to access E-Verify.
2) Once registered, participating employers can electronically verify employee information.
3) Registering and Verifying Imposes an additional burden to businesses.
4) As mentioned before, this is for NEW HIRES and Not for PRE-EMPLOYMENT decisions, so if there is a problem (False Negative – which happens frequently), then it may wrongly impact the hiring of the “new employee”, thereby wrongly affecting both the hiring decisions of companies and the employment of the individuals because companies may not be able to wait for the employee to clear their issue with the government
5) Also, if the Employer makes a mistake or uses the E-Verify program incorrectly, then the Employer may be terminated from the program, and thus unable to comply with this new Costa Mesa burden imposed on businesses.
6) Imposing E-Verify on a piecemeal basis when most other cities are not requiring businesses to comply, may have the unintended consequence of making current or potential Costa Mesa businesses to consider relocating somewhere else.
7) PRIVACY CONCERNS AND EMPLOYMENT CONCERNS:
Now IMAGINE a disgruntled employee forwards INFO either for a NEW employee or for a CURRENT employee for which they are NOT supposed to do so, but they intentionally mistype the name…thereby wrongly flagging the employee to the government…and now the employee has to go correct with the DHS . . . For example how long has it taken to get someone off a “TSA NO-FLY LIST” when the person was there by mistake…it has taken “forever”, well as you will read below, it has taken about 8-522 days for many employees to have their issue corrected.
8) OIG audited Social Security Administration (SSA) which is responsible for the management of this program.
8A) AUDIT report as of January 2010 OIG of SSA
SSA’s Human Resource Management Information System (HRMIS)7 showed that for Fiscal Year (FY) 2008 through March 31, 2009, SSA hired 9,311 new employees.
To determine whether SSA verified the employment eligibility of these new hires, OIG obtained the E-Verify transactions SSA submitted from October 1, 2007 to April 30, 2009.
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8B) SSA did not always use the E-Verify program as intended.
Specifically, OIG found that of the 9,311 new employees hired in FYs 2008 and 2009, E-Verify was not used to confirm the employment eligibility of 1,767 (19 percent) new hires; 44 (less than ½ of 1% of these new hires would have received an SSA TNC) response or been referred to DHS had SSA verified them through E-Verify …(SSA TNT = The data input by the employer did not match information in SSA’s Numident”)
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8C) DID NOT VERIFY TIMELY.
Of those verified 24% were verified late, ranging from 8-522 days. Are Costa Mesa or any other businesses going to have to wait 8-522 for the government to clear up these issues? Does this seem business friendly to you?
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8D) VERIFIED WRONG INDIVIDUALS violating the MOU.
Employers are prohibited from attempting to verify current employees or transfers as again this is only meant for NEW employees. SSA attempted to verify other New Employees, in violation of the E-Verify program.
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8E) WRONG VERIFICATION RESULT.
Some employees were originally not verified, but were later proven to be okay because of a NAME change which employee had NOT updated with SSA; others because of INCORRECT Name spelling.
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8F) Unknown Status…
“For 39 new hires, the names, SSNs, and DoBs in HRMIS matched the Numident, but their citizenship status indicated they may not have been eligible to work in the United States. It is possible these employees were eligible to work but had failed to report changes to their work authorization status to SSA after being issued their SSNs. They were assigned SSNs from 1963 to 2004 that indicated they were not eligible to work or were foreign-born individuals whose work authorization status was unknown.
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8G) INPUT ERRORS
SSA had transposition errors, when inputting the data…Now imagine the transposition of errors that can also occur with NEW HIRES.
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EXCERPTS of Conclusions and Recommendations OIG audit report:
In FYs 2008 and 2009, SSA (1) did not verify the employment eligibility for about 19 percent of its new hires; (2) did not verify about 49 percent of new hires within 7 calendar days after the new hires’ date of hire; and (3) verified the employment eligibility of 26 existing SSA employees, 31 volunteers, and at least 18 job candidates, which was not in accordance with the E-Verify MoU.
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PLEASE CLICK HERE for Earlier Article on Mayor Allan Mansoor’s plans for E-Verify by Vern Nelson.
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posted by Francisco “Paco” Barragan
(My opinions only and not those of any group)
“CM Mayor Mansoor Imposing Innefective(sic) & Anti-Business E-Verify Program”
E-Verify Program ineffective?……… are you saying that E-Verify of credit card accounts, credit scores and banking industry is ineffective?
I am sure that you are fright that it is too defective!
Stanislav Fiala:
You are confusing the E-VERIFY program (authorization to work in USA) Vs.
PCI (Payment Card Industry) Standards for the receiving, processing, holding, storing, encrypting and protecting of credit card sensitive information by Merchants.
PCI standards have two Levels of Compliance – Level I & Level II, based on number of credit cards users/Volume.
One level is a self-reporting process.
The other level requires an EXTERNAL Audit to be done of the merchant processing card transactions….Merchants must pass this level or they face shutdown, penalties and severe costs for re-establishing.
I am “afraid” of using an ineffective and burdensome program imposed on businesses, especially if used in isolation and with the current problems.
Needs to first be refined/strengthened and used as part of a broader reform to be effective and efficient.
I give you that if operated by the Mexicans it my be ineffective Francisco.
When I was in the Orange County Jail in July 2004 the ICE was already there and active. One day, I got speaker call to go down to see ICE to check my legal status.
When, I was naturalized I changed my name from Stanislav to Stanley so my citizenship papers show Stanley
The Mexican ICE officer ask me in Spanish what was my name and to show him a proof of my citizenship…… I ask him if he realize that I am in the jail and that such documents are at home.
So he punched Stanly Fiala in his federal database and nothing!. No citizen named Stanley Fiala so as they try to deport me to Mexico I told him to try Stanislav Fiala so he did.
Viva, there is USA Citizen Stanislav Fiala so I was released from the deportation holding cell.
So I told the ICE Mexican…. do you see how stupid you are?
Next time go fuck yourself cabrone!…. You are talking to the USA citizen here!
So I got pepper sprayed as an answer to my free speech from other fatso Mexican guard, with greasy mustache like Jose Solorio, who was standing by digesting his burrito. Another asshole started pointing pepper ball gun in my face.
For a minute, I believed that all these Mexicans were volunteering from the OJ, instructing the ICE how to oppress free speech.
@Stanislav F;
(and Vern and Art – ACTUALLY Stanislav”s story/comment IS SO VERY HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!):
Hey can we get you Stanislav to the Radio Station and have you tell the same story, but in some kind of “heavy accent”, can you do that?
(We should first warn our listeners that they are in for an uncensored treat; And we can call it – and make sure to check the FCC guidelines:)
a) Stanislav UNCENSORED and UNCUT ;or
b) something along the lines “Our Czech Borat”; or
c) “Borat has Nothing over Stanislav!”; or
d) “Czech Coming to America, Trying to Stay IN America, but Trying to Stay OUT of Jail” or
e) a Parody of “Borat!: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan”…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH2CABcffAo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_I3tIjztj8
we could call it:
“Stanislav! Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Czechakhstan – NOT!” ; or
f) “Teflon Stanislav – Mexican ICE Agents’ Pepper Glides right off!”;
g) “The Liberation of Czech-American from Mexican ICE Detention in OC!”
Your story is so outlandish that not even Hollywood could script this…I AM SERIOUS…but make sure you bring a “doctor’s note” that participating in this interview will not set your therapy sessions behind.
I actually got a great laugh at your story…”seria comico si no fuera tragico” – “it would be comic, if it wasn’t tragic!”
Don’t you have a story too where you thought a girl was freaking out/going psycho on you…that Michelle Q also seemed to love…perhaps we could get you and MICHELLE Q to show up . . .I honestly think we would all have a blast with some of the more outlandish views or comments!!!!
Good news for the SAUSD Francisco!
The socialists and liberals in the House of Representatives unanimously approved a bill Wednesday evening paving the way for the term “mental retardation” to be replaced with “intellectual disability” in many areas of federal law.
http://www.disabilityscoop.com/2010/09/23/house-approves-rosas-law/10346/
However, judging from the “a” to “g” medley of your titles above, incoherence of your political message and the geographical disorientation you have may suffered mild stroke rater than being intellectually disabled.
Not to be concern!
I would try plenty of fish oil and two aspirins daily to clean up some of your mednudo and corn based blood clogs.
It would be a blast all right; though can you handle the pressure?
@ MICHELLE Q (and Stanislav F.)
I truly think it would be great to have you BOTH come on the RADIO show next Wednesday…and Yes We Can Take the “Pressure”…if you heard the interview with Thomas Gordon and David Benavidez you will see that there was good exchange of ideas with ALL given the opportunity to speak freely!
If you “behave” you might get invited to our “Wine/Beer/Soft Drinks Summit” afterwards!
If I can get the kids to bed early I will call!
I always behave myself in company; NOT!
🙂
It’s 97% effective. This is why people don’t trust Nut Meg! She said she wanted it to be even more effective. If business’s run at 97% effectivness It would would be considered a home run! Nut Meg is well aware of that!
But to the nut cases who don’t want to stop illegal Aliens taking the jobs of American Citizen’s it’s too effective. Anything that stop’s illegal immigration is defective!
Like Sheriff Joe!
@ Michelle Q:
Michelle there are about 3%-5% immigrants that are unauthorized to work which closely mirrors the 97% authorized to work.
So the issue is that some jurisdictions want to implement a program that still has INTERNAL ineffectiveness and inefficiencies that carry over as an undue burden to businesses and authorized employees.
I think E-Verify needs to be strengthened and refined AND used IN CONJUNCTION with STRONGER BORDERS & COASTS; Stiffer Penalties against Employers; and Comprehensive Immigration Reform (CIR).
Without refinement and without CIR, this is just a piecemeal approach that does not solve the real issue , distracts us from our other REAL ISSUES, and places undue burdens on business and authorized employees.
Michelle there are about 3%-5% immigrants that are unauthorized to work which closely mirrors the 97% authorized to work.
MQ says:
Yeah, and I was one of them! If there is any type of discrepancy with the SS# Green Card it can quickly be resolved. The only reason anyone would be worried is because they are doing something wrong!
Don’t try to make it out like E-verify is a big deal. It is not!
Unless you are illegally in this country, then you get caught with a false id!
“Comprehensive Immigration Reform (CIR).”
There you go! The only words that really matter. I think the American people have spoken on that one. The Latino’s as you like to call your group have not made a great impression on this country. Americans do not want welfare recipients, people who don’t care to assimilate and moan bags! It’s that simple really. What latino’s have done to immigration is like what Obama is doing to this country-screwing it up!
Latino’s are their own worst enemy and now they are paying for it!
Really how the hell did you think Americans were going to react to schools being overrun by foreign speaking kids who parents prefer not to associate with the rest of the community or giving birth for free, while American families pay a huge price for maturity… Shall we go on?
Really, did you think they were going to welcome you with open arms? Then you march in their streets DEMANDING that they give you citizenship to their country when your own gives you a bottle of water and a map to leave!
A couple of things need to happen in the latino community: A little less narcism, hitting the books and building better neigbourhoods and communities (without the Governments help!).
If you are lucky to be here, you do your best to fit in and make the place better not worse!
I almost forgot!
Please don’t give me same old crap about doing the work the Americans will not do!
Try going to Africa and see if the africans will let you tend their crop’s and serve them their meals… It will not happen because you have the good fortune of neighboring a rich country and therefore you have the chance to get a job!
In this world the fact that you can clean someones else babies ass for cash is pure gold!
The statement that E-Verify is “a burdensome, anti-business, and ineffective program that is not yet working as intended” seem to miss on all counts.
E-Verify is a secondary, or supplemental, employment screening device that catches nearly half of the illegal aliens who, by felony document fraud and perjury, make it past the employer’s federally-mandated Form I-9 screening process.
“NOT YET WORKING AS INTENDED”
E-Verify does what it was designed to do. Where the Social Security number used by the employee is a fabricated one, it will not match a name in the system, and a tentative nonconfirmation (TNC) will be issued. But if an employee uses someone else’s name and Social Security number, a confirmation of work eligibility will likely be issued. Basic Pilot/E-Verify was “not designed to detect unauthorized workers who use either counterfeit or borrowed documents with valid information.” (Institute for Survey Research, Temple University, and Westat, “INS Basic Pilot Evaluation Summary Report,” submitted to Immigration and Naturalization Service, January 29, 2002, p. 23, http://www.uscis.gov.)
But USCIS wants more, and “strengthening E-Verify’s ability to better detect and deter identity fraud is a priority.” (“Westat Evaluation of the E-Verify Program: USCIS Synopsis of Key Findings and Program Implications,” January 28, 2010, http://www.uscis.gov.)
“INEFFECTIVE PROGRAM”
The Westat report and the Obama Administration praise E-Verify. (See “Westat Evaluation of the E-Verify Program: USCIS Synopsis of Key Findings and Program Implications,” January 28, 2010). “USCIS is very proud of Westat’s finding that an estimated 96 percent of all E-Verify initial responses were consistent with the person’s work authorization status.”
“E-Verify is detecting unauthorized employment in hundreds of thousands of cases, although there is more work to be done. E-Verify accurately detects the status of unauthorized workers almost half the time. While not perfect, it is important to note that E-Verify is much more effective than the Form I-9 verification process used by employers not using the program. In addition, we believe that E-Verify also deters many unauthorized workers from even applying for jobs with participating employers, although we cannot quantify the amount of this deterrence.”
And “strengthening E-Verify’s ability to better detect and deter identity fraud is a priority” that USCIS is pursuing by many avenues. E-Verify is “the best available tool to help employers determine whether their employees are authorized to work in the United States.”
EFFECTIVENESS AS TO ELIGIBLE WORKERS
“It is important to keep in mind that over 99 percent of authorized workers are initially found to be employment authorized in E-Verify….As more recent USCIS research has indicated, the majority of authorized workers who are initially flagged as mismatches…are able to successfully contest a tentative nonconfirmation and are accurately found as employment authorized.”
The Westat report has fully discredited the argument that many eligible workers are likely to be unable to keep their new jobs because of E-Verify.
EFFECTIVENESS AS TO INELIGIBLE WORKERS
Based on the April-June 2008 period studied, “Westat estimates that, primarily due to identity fraud, approximately half (54 percent with a plausible range of 37 to 64 percent) of unauthorized workers [who are 6.2% of all workers] run through E-Verify receive an inaccurate finding of being work authorized.”
Is a crime-suppression method “ineffective” just because it does not thwart all offenders? Why would we reject a convenient, quick, and inexpensive law enforcement tool that cuts the rate of a particular crime by nearly half?
How often do we get the opportunity to employ a new, non-burdensome law enforcement tool that cuts the rate of a crime by half? And when we get such an opportunity, do we decline to take advantage of it because it does not eliminate the crime completely?
“BURDENSOME”
Among Westat’s findings: “Employer compliance with program procedures has increased.” “E-Verify reduces discrimination against foreign-born workers.” “Employers are generally satisfied with the program and feel it is non-burdensome.”
“ANTI-BUSINESS”
E-Verify, which makes it harder to circumvent the I-9 form procedure, enhances fair and legal competition. Honest employers are better able to do what they are trying to do–hire those who are eligible and exclude those who are ineligible. The employers most likely to be disadvantaged by E-Verify are the scofflaws, who are forced to compete more fairly with their patriotic, law-abiding counterparts.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT E-VERIFY REQUIREMENTS UPHOLD THE RULE OF LAW
Anyone who would judge E-Verify by its friends and by its enemies will notice that its friends are on the pro-law, pro-enforcement side of the illegal immigration debate, and its opponents are supporters of amnesty for illegal aliens. It appears that those who support amnesty and who dislike laws that disallow employment of illegal aliens are deprecating E-Verify not because it doesn’t work, but because it works so well.
If we get enough businesses to use E-Verify, we will not need to compromise the bedrock American principle of the rule of law. We won’t need to reward lawbreakers with amnesty and thereby degrade the rule of law by teaching people that obeying the law is not a serious moral obligation and that crime pays.
@ Steve:
E-Verify is a Voluntary Program, except for federal contractors or sub-contractors. And NOTHING stops a company from signing-up voluntarily.
It should be up to “patriotic” companies to Volunteer to sign up while the program has some flaws (as the most recent OIG audit report) shows rather than imposing it on them, for now.
This way companies are able to sign-up with an understanding of the basic deficiencies of the program which can cause them to incur an additional burden.
As you yourself said:
“Basic Pilot/E-Verify was ‘[NOT] designed to detect unauthorized workers who use either counterfeit or borrowed documents with valid information’”.
“E-Verify accurately detects the status of unauthorized workers [ALMOST HALF] the time.”
“USCIS wants more, and “strengthening E-Verify’s ability to better detect and deter identity fraud is a priority.’”
As I said, E-Verify should not be mandated, while it still has problems, and especially not in isolation and on a piecemeal basis, as this does not address the issue of unauthorized/undocumented immigrants.
Francisco “Paco” Barragan
My opinions only and not those of any group
Allan Mansoor doesn’t care if this actually works or not. He doesn’t care how it will effect businesses ot if it is a nightmare to implement.
All Allan Mansoor cares is about Allan Mansoor.
He had over six years to put this program in place. If he felt we had such a “problem”.
Instead he throws this program onto the laps of the city and residents then tries to ride off to Sacramento and leave us to sort it out.
It’s political pandering ….no solutions……no answers…no leadership….The same thing we’ve gotten the entire time he’s been on this council.
Do not vote for Mansoor if you want to get anything actually accomplished.
Gericault, not to mention that, since Mansoor is a Republican and one who reeks anti-gay and anti-Latino sentiment, the Speaker of the Assembly – did I mention he’s a gay Latino? – will most likely assign him an office down in the basement somewhere. Of course, as a former almost-lifetime jailer, Mansoor will feel right at home. Having him as the representative of the 68th Assembly District means we will have NO representation.
You mean the: left wing whack jobs, Gays without a cause, illegal Aliens, welfare Queens and dead beat parents? I would say you are right, they are not represented in Costa Mesa; but all over Calfornia they are! Its the underserved, vulnerable taxpayer who is not respresented in Calfornia except in Costa Mesa!
Mansoor is one of a kind in Calfornia!
PottyStirrer
I am white minority oppressed by the Latinos, i.e. Jose Solorio and his ilk.
Allan Mansoor is protecting my safety and existence in the California.
Thank you Allan….. you got my vote.
Stanley, it’s time you come to grips with your latino fetish.
You remind me of those hard core anti gay individuals who are actually gay.
Yes that is me Stanislav Paradox Fiala! Gay who is basing gays. Mexican hater who merry the Mexican.
I’m sure Mansoor will be happy to know he has the foul-mouthed lunatic vote locked up!
The vote is vote!….. PottyStirrer
E – verify
Sound a lot like E -file (for tax returns) Had a lot of problems in the first couple years and now handles most peoples returns effectively.
We need E-verify and we also need the Orange County Department of Social Services to start using the SAVE PROGRAM!
That should be the next thing on the table!
@ Michelle Q:
Do you or any one you know, know whether the SAVE program is used to Prevent or Detect “double-dipping”/fraud by an applicant who may be receiving benefits in one COUNTY or State; and who then attempts to double-dip by also applying at another COUNTY or STATE?
Or does anybody know IF or HOW the county(ies) attempt to prevent or detect this, to protect the tax-payer?
If the SAVE program is being used effectively and efficiently to prevent or detect non-eligible individuals from using certain Entitlement benefits, then I think this SHOULD also be expanded to DOUBLE-Dippers, as the issue of “Double-Dipping Fraud is independent of Legal immigration status, as a US Citizen or Legal resident could potentially be attempting to commit this type of Fraud.
“I think this SHOULD also be expanded to DOUBLE-Dippers”…….. did anyone opposed it here?
Put it on the paper and start collecting the signatures.
You got mine Francisco.
The SAVE PROGRAM checks only the legal status of the recipient. But since the Orange County Social Services know the parent/parents are illegal they don’t check it! The loop whole has become the child. Even though the check is written in the parents name. It is supposably going to the American born child. The ridiculous thing about the whole system is the illegal parents (cal-works program) are not eligible to work so they are not made too. American Citizens are!
This whole system is a complete scam. This is why we have nearly 500,000 needy families. The largest amount of welfare recipients in the country!
The needy families are the children of illegal immigrants 1st and 2nd generation and beyond!
And yes they should use it to check for double dippers, but they will not the do not want the parents to sign it at all!