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According to a new study released by the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average public sector employee earns $40.40 per hour while their private sector counterpart earns only $28.13. Not unexpectedly, a huge chunk of that pay differential comes in the form of public sector benefits (including huge pension costs). The typical public sector employee makes $26.41 per hour while receiving $13.99 per hour in benefits (making total compensation $40.40). On the private side, wages average $19.81 while benefits are $8.32 (for a total hourly compensation rate of $28.13). This study was conducted and vetted fully by public employees.
Here are the numbers, which resonate in today’s unemployment climate. The amount employers pay for retirement, paid leave and insurance are dramatically higher for public vs. private sector workers.
Pensions:
- Average costs in private industry for retirement benefits were $1.03 per hour worked.
- Average costs for public workers for retirement benefits were $3.32 per hour worked.
Insurance costs:
- Average costs in private industry: $2.27 per hour worked.
- Average costs for public workers: $4.83 per hour worked.
Paid leave:
- Average costs in private industry: $1.90 per hour worked.
- Average costs for public workers: $3.03 per hour worked.
Public Unions, a completely counterproductive and anti free market force negotiating “against” elected officials with no personal stake in the negotiations have done a good job of bloating public employee benefits. When confronted with the above numbers labor union reps — who negotiated these fine pay packages for their members — contend that jealous private sector workers shouldn’t try to take their benefits away, but should instead try to force private industry to pay better. Good luck with that, folks. When you are negotiating with an employer that has to stay in business it is a whole different matter with checks and balances as opposed to the perceived endless fount of the public trough.
Geoff, you and your selective use of “facts” … sorry, I was channelling Anonster. I eagerly await the lefties’ dismissive comments and their ignoring the issues you actually raise in your post.
This is good news GW because this USA Bolshevism will go bankrupt sooner!
I am extremely happy for the suffering of the people in this country and they must suffer some more to realize not to vote for communists and go back to USA constitution.
I’m looking for the words “for comparable jobs,” but I don’t see them there.
My guess is that the average 5-year-old worker in the U.S. makes more than the average 50 year old, because if you’re working at 5 years old you’re probably an actor or model and are making decent money. There’s a lesson in statistics there for you. It involves “generalization from disparate samples.”
Yes, I am relying on that suspect “rightest” group, Obama’s Debartment of Labor for my slanted statistics.
Give us a break, Geoff. Greg raised a simple question, which you conveniently ducked. Where in those statistics does it say they compared the exact same jobs?
We all know that, once again, you have an absolutist position on this issue. For you, there never is such a thing as reform or negotiation. Heaven forbid. You’d just do away with public unions entirely.
I tried this some time ago to no avail since most of the lefties on here choose to ignore the facts when they don’t benefit their argument, but here goes again. USA Today last year published a story that 8 out of 10 times, public employees made more than private employees in comparable jobs:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm?obref=obinsite
Oh, and the numbers in the story didn’t even include a comparison of the health, pension, and other benefits received, which would skew the numbers even more on public employees.
And none of that makes a case for why public unions should be abolished vs. negotiated with.
Anon, I will try once more. In a private company unions want extract as much as they can in wages and benefits while the company wants to maximize profits. There is a natural tug between the forces that is further stabilized by the fact that if the unions over reach, the company goes out of business and everyone loses.
In the public setting a public union wants to extract as much as it can in wages and benefits. They negotiate with elected officials that have no more at stake than any other taxpayer – whatever happens in the negotiation the public employer will suffer negligible impact if any. Sometimes the unions even get their “own” elected in which case they are negotiating with themselves – a great trick since they are using other people’s money. Finally, there is no “counterforce” of solvency ensuring that the public employee salaries and benefits put the public agency “out of business” – they just figure that the taxpayer well is endless.
Geoff, nothing that you said, nothing, means that public unions MUST be abolished.
That’s simply a conclusion one comes to when one sees the world in absolute terms.
I like these quotes from the article:
But National Treasury Employees Union President Colleen Kelley says the comparison is faulty because it “compares apples and oranges.” Federal accountants, for example, perform work that has more complexity and requires more skill than accounting work in the private sector, she says.
“When you look at the actual duties, you see that very few federal jobs align with those in the private sector,” she says. She says federal employees are paid an average of 26% less than non-federal workers doing comparable work.
By the way, you did notice that this study refers to federal employees not state employees, right? About state employees, it says this:
Not quite “44%,” eh?
You are speaking of public sector jobs here which includes state, city, and other municipality jobs. This article that you’ve posted a link to is for federal jobs. We all know that the federal government overpays for everything; however, on the local level public sector jobs pay much less. In my county a paramedic in the hospital with little responsibility for a patient’s well being makes $22.00 an hour. A paramedic working for the public sector makes $12.00 an hour and is expected to make all clinical decisions for the well being of the patient and provide lifesaving treatment. The fact is that even if you work the in private sector most likely your job is totally dependent on the government. Take for example a private hospital. Most private hospitals would not survive if it were not for federal subsidies for indigent care and medicaid. Take out government spending and I would wager that 30% or more of businesses would go bankrupt within a year.
It’s worse than that — it’s “the exact same jobs with the exact same longevity.” Of course, if you don’t think that people should get raises — and perhaps Geoff doesn’t — then you can overlook experience in a position.
I don’t think that it is my place to decide who gets a raise and who doesn’t – it is market forces that should make that decision – market forces that have been stymied by the explosion in the size of government and the impact of public unions.
Excellent defense of the ability of “middleman” cronies to siphon off the profits from labor, Geoff!
I see that subtlety is lost on you. Tell me what will get through to you and I’l try it.
Are you suggesting, Greg, that most government jobs entail more than flipping burgers or running a cash register?
Sorry — my mistake!
Are you belittling flipping burgers or running a cash register? That is less impressive than being the 368th clerk in charge of moving paper from one pile to the next with little or no thought or a clerk at the DMV? Any job can be as fulfilling or worthless depending on what you make of it – everyone in my private sector office is intelligent and educated – not the point. Plus you are ignoring the study that Newbie sited that found that when you compared IDENTICAL job descriptions the public sector still makes more than their private sector counterpart.
No, no, no! I love flippin burgers. And LET ME AT A cash register.
You do understand, don’t you, that you’re making up the facts that you’re trying to use to bolster your arguments, right?
I know DMV clerks. Talk about your difficult customer service jobs! They make flight attendants’ jobs look low-impact.
I’ll address newbie’s smashing USA Today article above. I take it that you didn’t read the story, did you?
Vern, he said “running” a cash register, not “running with a….” ;7)
“the average public sector employee earns $40.40 per hour while their
>>>>> private sector counterpart <<<ß—– Greg, this what you looking for?
earns only $28.13"
private sector counterpart = for comparable jobs.
Why has the private sector pay and benefit fallen so much in the last 10 plus years?
I think as the government takes more and more from the private sector to fund the increases in the public sector, the private sector can raise prices, but with world wide competition going on, that doesn’t work anymore, so the private sector pay has to drop for the economic equation to equalize.
No matter how many dollar bills the fed prints each year, there is only 300 million units made by the 300 million people in the USA, and when the government take more of those units for the public workforce, that increase is equal to the decrease in units available for the private workforce.
So you presume that they define “counterpart” as “someone with a comparable job” as opposed to “someone in the other sector.” Would you bet one of your teeth on it?
Yes I would.
You say that cook because you have no teeth. I know you bro…
Should I have gone with “testicle”? Don’t answer that.
More’s the pity.
I am happy to see that even the left is suspicious of the Obama Administration. I think that this is the data that you are looking for.
Average hourly wages vary significantly by type of job:
Management jobs: $34.95 private sector; $33.38 for state and local government
Sales and office jobs: $15.94 private; $17.01 government
Service jobs: $11.65 private; $18.25 government
Obama’s BLS draws the data from the National Compensation Survey.
So let’s see; if I get my handy dandy calculator out and add up those figures, we come up with…
government jobs = $68.64
private jobs = $62.54
Which begs the question; where did the “44% less” statistic come from? Cuz it clearly didn’t come from comparing the same jobs.
Oh, and just to let you know…it isn’t the “left” that’s necessarily suspicious of the Obama Administration…it’s people with an OPEN MIND.
I am neutrally reporting what the Obama BLS came up with. Don’t know how your calculator works but when I compare public sector total compensation of $40.40 with private sector compensation of $28.13 I get a 44% difference. You must be using one of those liberal calculators that gives you the numbers that you want to see rather than the real number.
Most of us on “the left” are suspicious, or at least skeptical, of any “authority.” It’s a healthy American trait.
I think most on the right are very skeptical of authority and I agree that it is a healthy American trait.
Well, those on the right and left need to make a special effort to be skeptical of authority when it comes, ostensibly, from their side of the “spectrum.”
The reasons the founders did a good job making sure the government did not rule, but the people did. They did not trust PEOPLE with too much power!
Huh???
Actually, Quinn, the “people” do not rule, at least not literally. In case you hadn’t noticed, we do not have a direct democracy in this country. The Founders created 3 branches of government, a federal constitutional republic. We have representatives, and an Executive branch that legislate. And courts that often interpret the constitutionality of that legislation. The Founders, in their wisdom, knew that the country would likely become too large for a direct democracy to work efficiently.
I think, anon, Michelle was trying to get at that, but between here and there she got WOEFULLY confused.
I think folks need to be skeptical of all authority, be it government or private tyrannies. And I’ll believe it’s a healthy (U.S.) American trait when people stop rolling over when the next war comes waiting to have their bellies rubbed by the power elite 🙂
Yes, Chamberlain was right and Churchill had it wrong about that Hitler fellow.
Sometimes, war is just. Sometimes.
Are you capable of discerning when it’s not?
Where’s them WMD’s in Iraq?
The first person to mention Hitler loses the debate.
A sufficient condition, Rapscallion, but obviously not a necessary one.
I think we know by now that Geoff has a problem with truth (in other words, he’s a consummate liar) but what the heck, let’s give him a shot. Geoff, go ahead and provide the full report so we can see what you’re lying about this time.
By the way, Geoff, when you’re talking about “private sector” employees, may we assume you’re including executive level pay, too, or are you giving them a pass?
I did not create the study, that came from the Obama administration and yes, private sector employees of all levels were included.
First, I really love being called a liar since evidently by your definition you are a “liar” if you present accurate but disliked facts. The reason many people are anonymous is because they can be very brave calling people names behind the cloak of a pseudonym casting aspersions on those willing to take personal responsibility for their words – the act of very “brave” people.
The general study is linked from this page.
http://www.bls.gov/bls/wages.htm
The Orange County Register ran a couple of stories about this same study earlier this month (but since I am agreeing with the perspective in these two stories I am sure that you will consider them “lies” or “biased” as well.
http://jan.ocregister.com/2011/09/09/govt-benefits-68-more-than-private-industry-in-june/63765/#more-63765
http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2011/09/10/feds-public-workers-paid-better-than-private-workers/96890/
Let’s talk about fruit. Let’s limit it to cantaloupes, grapefruits, apples, plums, grapes and raisins.
Could that be because the government’s fruit salad involves
hiringusing more cantaloupes, grapefruits and apples and the private sector’s fruit salad involves using more plums, grapes and raisins? Could that explain it even if government cantaloupe weighs the same as private sector cantaloupe, government apples weigh the same as private sector apples, and government raisins weigh the same as private sector raisins?Yes, of course, it could — except that those things in the private sector’s salad aren’t raisins.
To quote Vern – “huh?”
“I want to buy some cheeeeeese.”
Buy the fruit, act out the two kinds of fruit salad on your kitchen table, and you’ll learn something about statistical comparisons. Then eat the fruit. It’s good for you.
Well, Geoff, you lied about the McDonald’s case and you lied about the sneezing story, so it seems reasonable to doubt anything you say. These data need some time to digest prior to cherry picking a number and then attacking the idea that people should earn a living wage. I notice that you still haven’t responded to the issue that massive executive overcompensation deprives employees of decent wages.
Geoff NEVER responds when he’s been caught-with-his-pants-down (read; WRONG) no, he just ignores those posts/comments and goes on to post more crap.
Geoff also likes to project, if he’s been caught lying by you, then he will call you a liar, if he’s claiming your biased, it’s because he’s biased and if he says you have have a victim mentality, well, that’s only because he thinks that ONLY the rich, conservative, white guy are entitled to whine.
We need a rightwing writer on this blog – or 2 or 3 – and mostly they do tend to do those things, it seems, unfortunately.
But we all learn a lot in the Orange Juice’s celebrated comments sections!
I generally stop replying when it is merely a personal attack lacking any substance. Never been “caught” lying cause I don’t lie.
Well Geoff, THAT is a LIE!
Case in point; Death of Common Sense post;
Geoff Willis (to anon, just for perspective on “personal attacks”)
Posted September 22, 2011 at 2:44 PM
Thanks for making my point about current victim mentality so quickly. I knew I could count on you.
**************************************
Anonster ( reply to Geoff, no mea culpas’s forthcoming from Geoff, even though he was 100% WRONG, plenty of “substance”)
Posted September 24, 2011 at 6:54 AM
“I am holding a hot substance just above my thighs and genitals while trying to operate a two ton dangerous weapon and it doesn’t really matter that it is illegal to drink and drive and I will take the risk that I am going to hurt myself.”
Geoff, thank you for making my point about conservatives not knowing ANY of the FACTS yet trying to use this case as an example of frivolous lawsuits. I knew I could count on you.
No one deserves 3rd degree burns/hospitalization simply because they spilled their coffee.
Let me parse this gem, where you call me a liar;
“Anonster, your constant and imperious twisting of the facts from your own perceived place on high gets tiring to those of us who actually think.”
I didn’t “twist” ANY fact.
“NOTHING in the statements that I have seen from Mr. Cuckovich (see Vern, he does exist) provide the slightest scintilla of evidence that Mr. Cuckovich’s discipline had ANYTHING to do with “exposing kids to the difference between fact and superstition.” That is a pure Anonster contrivance (meaning she made it up). The only reason given by Mr. Cuckovich is that saying “God bless you” “disrupted the class.” Yeah, the 1/2 second it takes to say bless you must just completely derail classroom activities.”
Except that Mr. Cuckovich HAD SAID the following;
“The blessing doesn’t really make sense anymore,” he said. “When you sneeze in the old days, they thought you were dispelling evil spirits out of your body. So they were saying, ‘God bless you,’ for getting rid of evil spirits. But today, what you’re doing doesn’t really make any sense anymore.”
And YOU go on to say;
” While it is true that Mr. Cuckovich does emphatically state that his doling out of punishment for saying “God bless you” had “nothing to do with religion” that is a Cuckovich contrivance (read lie) because his explanation for punishing “God bless you” calls religious belief “superstition that no longer applies” thus rejecting religious doctrine as superstition in violation of TWO of the students’ First Amendment rights (speach and religion). Finally, Mr. Cuckovich’s understanding of the origin of “God bless you” is far from factual and largely innaccurate – great teaching.”
So first you call me a LIAR, saying there is NO EVIDENCE that Mr. Cuckovich was trying to expose kids to superstition and then you go on to excoriate Mr. Cuckovich for “rejecting religious doctrine as superstition”, which is it GEOFF?
Face it Geoff, you’re a thin-skinned prig , who can NEVER admit when you’re wrong, but you sure do like to project your own shortcomings onto others.
This chart is interesting. Its complexity shows that a blanket statement that public employees make more is a gross overstatement that does not serve an actual purpose, unless you start comparing occupations.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#(4)
This is but another of those right leaning posts comparing averages of averages and reaching a manipulated conclusion. Here are some studies producing much different findings:
http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/california_publicsector_workers_are_neither_overpaid_nor_overcompensated/
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/publications/reports/wage-penalty-state-local-gov-employees/
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3410
A direct quote from the third study listed above: “Studies find that public workers are paid 4 to 11 percent less than private-sector workers with similar education, job tenure, and other characteristics.[1] This wage disadvantage is greatest for higher-wage public workers. The typical middle-wage worker earns about 4 percent less in the public sector than the private sector. [2] Low-wage state and local workers, by contrast, receive a small wage premium.”
Of course you will not see these studies reported in The Register for they reach conclusions that conflict with that paper’s anti-government stance. Don’t look there for objective, unbiased reporting about anything to do with government.
As much as the left loves to lie about the fact that the public sector is nothing more than a bunch of fat, diverse idiots, getting a more than ample pay package because the stupid people vote in crooks who are whores to the unions…..We all know its true!!!!!!
They lie and they lie and then there is a huge story in the La times (of all places) how a guy who reads the water meter is making 100 Gs +
But you are very right FROM THE EXILE, it will bring this state on its knee’s and like any drunk that is what is called ROCK BOTTOM, the end of drinking or death!
Eww, diverse!! 🙁
Don’t feed the troll.
You mean, “Don’t argue with the truth!”.
Blah, Blah Mr. Diamond.. What union do you belong too, or run?
No, I just like exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!
The ONLY people who love public sector unions, are in them, or members (Family included). The only People who love illegal immigration, benefit from illegal immigration: unions, teachers, police, wardens, non-profits, government and it’s employees and of course businesses that hire them!
People don’t benefit, are lower middle class and people trying to do the right thing by hiring Americans!
The public sector is corrupt in so many ways and California with its highest paid public workers are evident that illegal immigration and whore politicians make a lot of public workers quite rich!
What? That wasn’t me! I don’t mind feeding the troll! Steak and kidney pie, right?
MQ,
Lighten up on the booze honey, you’re making even less sense lately than usual.
I love the booze, I will not lie….But only someone selling old shit would be drinking a 4pm in the afternoon HONEY!
Don’t call me honey, I prefer your nasty side!
More exclamation points = more true. (!!!!!)
Here’s to the end of death!
I mean’t diverse in stupidity:0)
Yes, Greg. She mean’t diverse in stupidity:0)
Write that out fifty times now.
Have someone explain my comment to you, ROCK BOTTOM!
Looks like Greg Diamond was right, the government has more apples and the private sector more grapes, the following are the results from John Boehner’s Congressional Research Service;
From Fierce government;
Congressional Research Service
employee unions
Gerald Mayer
A new study indicates that public sector workers are likely earning more, in terms of pay and benefits, on average than private sector workers, according to a July 1 Congressional Research Service report. But that doesn’t necessarily mean public sector workers earn more than their similarly qualified, private-sector counterparts–the public sector may simply have more highly-qualified workers, says the CRS.
Fifty-one percent of full-time government workers are between 45 to 64 years old, while only 43 percent of private sector workers fall into that range. Older employees typically have more work experience and therefore would command a greater salary, writes Gerald Mayer, CRS labor analyst and report author.
An earlier CRS report referenced by Mayer clearly shows the often-discussed aging federal workforce. The percentage of federal employees aged 55 and older increased from 15 percent in 1998 to 26 percent in 2010. The percentage of federal employees aged 30 to 49 declined from 59 percent in 1998 to 47 percent in 2010.
Other factors also contribute to the pay gap, according to the report. Public-sector workers have more years of education than private sector workers. In 2010, 52 percent of workers in the public sector had a bachelor’s, advanced, or professional degree, compared to 34 percent of private sector workers, according to CRS.
Read more: CRS: Public sector workers older, more educated than private sector workers – FierceGovernment http://www.fiercegovernment.com/story/crs-public-sector-workers-older-more-educated-private-sector-workers/2011-08-16#ixzz1ZXRXMG3r
Subscribe: http://www.fiercegovernment.com/signup?sourceform=Viral-Tynt-FierceGovernment-FierceGovernment
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41897.pdf
When I started in the public sector at age 23, my pay was decent but lower than what my college degree would have garnered in the private sector. My union bargained for raises and benefits that kept up with the economy at the time.
I left public sector employment at age 30. The economy was in good shape. I made a nice living with retirement and health benefits in the private sector.
Now I am 54. The economy has tanked, my current private sector salary is below what I need in order to save for my 401k since I don’t get medical coverage and pay for my own insurance.
Do I wish I made as much in benefits and wages as my public sector counterparts?
Heck yeah!
But I don’t think the public sector employees and unions are to blame. The public sector is benefiting from long-negotiated contracts that are providing a living wage (see the OC Commission on Children & Families for the current OC “living wage”) and benefits in a damaged economy.
Sure there are examples of bloat (shameful!) when government employees jack up their retirement by working crazy overtime hours to boost their “income” in their final year, or include their car allowances into their retirement computations. Other than the extreme spiking examples, I do not fault public most sector employees for their decent wages and benefits. They are merely receiving compensation at a level private sector employees also deserve, but will seldom find today.
Makes sense, that must be why the local cities are out-sourcing everything the private sector cost less that the public sector. Especially here in California.
… which, of course, is also not true.
Hey, how much does the public sector equivalent of a private sector middleman make?
Define “middleman”
I’ll use examples: Xe/Blackwater, Halliburton, everyone who got the contracts to provide government services to Costa Mesa.
Ok, the middleman is the management service, how far down the ladder you like to go?
I think in Santa Ana its about 1 percent for the top 10 about 2 million a year.
But if you go all the way down to the city worker, maybe closer to 50 percent or more.
And the more city workers (those who work) get laid off, the higher the management share increases as a percentage of the total pie.
Currently the only way to decrease those management cost over the tax base, would be to consolidate the cities and special districts and to peg the civil service salaries to something easily measured, like a governors pay scale.
Did you know that currently a low level civil servant like a city manager in Orange County Ca gets a larger pension than the President of the United States.
I’d enjoy seeing the comparison between the pensions of Obama and the “low level civil servant” of an OC City Manager laid out explicitly, cook. That will, however, make me wonder why you think that I am defending the pensions of such “low level” employees, and of how you define “low level.”
My use of the term “low level” does not include people who are able to vote on their own such fancy packages, or convince their friends to direct such largesse to them, a la City of Bell. I expect that I’m not alone in this usage.
Here is a stab at the numbers that I am aware of:
School superintendent retirement is pegged at 245,000 a year, this is from the testimony at the state senate meeting a year ago. I saw in the OCR web site some numbers for retired Santa Ana employees that I have never heard of, and don’t know what their job was, getting 172,000 per year, I know the names of the top managers so this person must be down the ladder a ways. I expect that the recently retired city manager is getting at least 200 to 250k per year.
Besides those taxpayer paid retirements, these people also get other retirements and some even social security payments too. Maybe these people are not getting BELL size pensions, but well over 200 thousand a year.
……………….
The Presidential pension is not a fixed amount, rather it matches the current salary of Cabinet members (or Executive Level I personnel), which is $191,300/year as of March, 2008 (196,700 now) On death, the surviving spouse get 20,000 as long as they waive all rights to other pensions they be entitle to.
……………
So I see city managers and county supervisors and school superintendents as much lower civil servants than the President of the USA.
Anonster – so, government employees have on average more education than private sector employees, they are older, and they have more experience and these are factors that skew the comparison of average compensation. Imagine that! I will bet the average employee (including partners and other attorneys) at Mr. Willis’ law firm earn more than the average American worker – guess we should be worked up about that inequity too, huh?