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As the homeless in Orange County flock to shelters in the wake of three brutal holiday murders, sources close to the investigation are reporting that a theory is emerging that the slayings may have been a part of local gang initiation rituals. “Its looking more and more like this may have been some one’s ticket to get into a gang,” commented the local law enforcement authority.
Jim Palmer, president of the Orange County Rescue Mission, said the prospect of a serial killer in their midst had shaken the county’s homeless like nothing he had seen in the last two decades. “People are very, very anxious about the situation,” Mr. Palmer said. “This is just so evil that somebody would go after the least, the last and the lost of our community: homeless people on their own.”
Similarities in the three killings have led the police to suspect that a single killer is targeting the men. All three victims were middle-aged transients stabbed multiple times, and all three homicides occurred between Dec. 20 and Dec. 30 in the inland areas of Orange County.
In the hopes that someone has seen something without even being aware of its relevance, police have set up checkpoints in various places to question potential witnesses. A special task force of about 70 local and federal law enforcement officials set up a roadblock canvas from 6 to 10 p.m. in the 100 block of North Bradford Avenue, across the street from where 53-year-old James McGillivray was killed. He was the first victim of what police have called a “serious, dangerous serial killer.”
I’m hesitant to say that gangs — which most readers will interpret as minority youth — are behind these murders. Is this their M.O.? I’d think that one place to look would be among people who have expressed hatred of homeless people. That’s not that hard to find in Orange County.
Funny, I’m white, I pictured young tattoo bearing white trash. I guess it’s just where you live and who your afraid of..
No, it’s actually whether you care about who really is doing the killings, or if you try to characterize someone as a racist for even daring to mention apparently who law enforcement itself currently believes is behind the killings. Personally, I just pictured a thug preying on and needlessly killing an innocent homeless person and would like for that person to be caught, regardless of race.
Why “apparently who law enforcement itself currently believes is behind the killings”?
If that’s what Geoff was saying, with any sort of actual back-up, then it not only is fair to write here but should be in the headline. But it’s not. This story is just fear-mongering, aimed (implausibly) at minority youth. If there’s more to the story, there should be more to the story here.
As it is, the story is tantamount to expressing a suspicion that anti-tax crusaders “may be” killing people to prevent public spending on them. That’s not only baseless, it may be equally baseless. Now, maybe Geoff really does have some inside info, but we barely even see an assertion of it here.
Of course the story wouldn’t be half as bad without the inflammatory headline, which seems to be (from the craigslist posts) what fuels it.
Your writing is often so muddled Mr. Diamond it is hard to decipher your point. If you are challenging the veracity of the claim a direct quote from a law enforcement officer on the case (““Its looking more and more like this may have been some one’s ticket to get into a gang,” commented the local law enforcement authority.”) is not enough for you?
In addition, you and only you are trying to turn this into something about race or class (“This story is just fear-mongering, aimed (implausibly) at minority youth”) when the story says nothing about the age or race of the potential perpetrators (which as far as I know is still unkown even to police). I am admittedly not a gang expert but I thought that gangs came in all shapes, forms and colors. Is it your allegation that ALL gangs are ONLY minority youths?
WHAT local law-enforcement authority? Why would he or she remain anonymous — except that there’s apparently nothing to this theory. Did you do this reporting yourself? Why do you protect your source?
All right, Geoff, since neither of us are “gang experts,” let’s make a wager at even odds. We’ll gather 100 people and ask them what race/ethnicity they expect a given gang member to be. For every one that says “white,” I’ll give you $1. For every one that says “Black, Latino, Asian,” you give me $1. Fair?
Then, once I walk away with my winnings, you can ask yourself whether sounding the alarm about gangs is or is not racially inflected in our present-day society.
Kind of an obvious theory, but lacking any sort of story here. Are you reporting that it’s suspected a single gang member is the serial killer? Or just one gang?
I sure hope that this isn’t the only possibility that they’re considering. Can your sources close to the investigation tell us what else they are working on?
Maybe it’s the Tea Party Gang?
I hope that’s tongue-in-cheek and you’re not pandering to Diamond’s fantasies.
My pointing out that there’s really no more solid reason to suspect gangs here than to suspect radical anti-tax crusaders isn’t a fantasy, it’s pointing out that there is no actual story here, just a smear.
They are upset that these people do not pay income tax?
If you want to see where Geoff copied and pasted his last paragraph from, go to the Register at:
http://www.ocregister.com/news/police-335111-killer-information.html
There is a lot more useful info there than what is shown above, like vehicle and suspect descriptions.
Sad times were living in.
These times are sad if you choose to see it that way. We are just more interconnected with every nook and cranny of the world, and are bombarded with “if it bleeds, it leads” mentality of reporting.
These kind of inhuman events have a long history : the Boston Strangler, the Nightstalker, the Son of Sam, Ted Bundy, Dahmer, Gacy, and on and on. This is nothing new, the media just wants you to believe that it is, so that you will tune in to see the latest episode of “the Creep Next Door Show.”
There is a certain portion of the population that are psychopaths and nut jobs, and that is just part of the fabric of society. We are not having an explosion of kooks, just an explosion of people trying to scare the crap out of you, about how prevalent it is.
Did you know that most major crime stats are declining, not increasing?
So don’t despair, there are more good people than bad out there; they just don’t garner the attention that the miscreants do.
Good points, that’s exactly true.
But I wonder what the evidence is that makes law enforcement suspect it to be a gang thing?
Hope it’s stronger than what made everyone think the Oklahoma City bombing was the work of Muslims.
The only evidence we have so far that its a gang thing, is that Geoffrey
said so.
You might not want to bet the farm on that info.
Something tells me that he would prefer that it be gang related, and not some mental patient that should be in an institution on appropriate meds.
The comments on here are simply ridiculous. Geoff quotes a source in law enforcement that says they currently think it could be gang related and all you liberals on here raise the race card, jump all over him, basically calling him a liar. Yet, liberals and the media have no problem rocketing to the conclusion that any violent act by a white male is inevitably inspired by the Tea Party movement (Gabby Giffords ring a bell?). Oh, and when it actually is a Muslim extremist who is the perpetrator, the left and the media warn against jumping to conclusions, and in some cases, actually hope it wasn’t a Muslim extremist who did the act. What a joke. Try getting off your liberal high horse and actually care about bringing the person or persons who are killing innocent people to justice.
WHAT SOURCES???
He says: “sources close to the investigation are reporting …”
WHAT SOURCES???
You say “Geoff quotes a source in law enforcement that says they currently think it could be gang related”
WHAT SOURCE? For that matter, WHAT QUOTE?
Maybe it could have been in the story — but it ISN’T in the story.
Are you really that dense? “Its looking more and more like this may have been some one’s ticket to get into a gang,” commented the local law enforcement authority. [First Paragraph of Story]
You’re right, the quote was there. I’m reduced to “where’s the source?” And I’ll say it loud and often. Was the source blowing smoke? Full of crap? Himself interested in stirring up anti-gang fervor?
Newbie.. remind us again why Tea Party queen Sarah Palin took down the map with the crosshairs after the Gifford shooting.
You know the one labeled “take back the 20.”
Even Palin “rocketed” to the conclusion that it was over the top.
Your ” comments on here are simply ridiculous.”
“Try getting off your liberal high horse and actually care about bringing the person or persons who are killing innocent people to justice.”
If Willis is really trying to find the killer, why does he omit the only evidence released so far, from his story.
The Register says: “The video also shows a white Toyota Corolla, model year 2000 to 2003, in a parking lot near where the killing happened. A time stamp on the video suggests the car pulled out more than an hour before the attack; police have said they believe the killer laid in wait for some time before approaching the victim.” There is also an image of a person in a hoodie.
He already plagiarized the article, why leave out some concrete evidence from the paper, and just float his own unsubstantiated theory?
I think everybody here wants the killer caught, Geoff’s article just doesn’t help by saying it’s a gang member.
My earlier story covered that
“Police have a grainy video showing a figure wearing a hoodie approaching one of the victims before his murder. Two of the murders took place at night and the third during daylight in the late afternoon. “We believe these murders were likely committed by the same suspect and feel he is extremely dangerous to the public,” Anaheim Chief of Police John Welter told reporters today. Police are very interested in finding out information about a white four door Toyota that was picked up in the surveillance footage. ”This vehicle is of particular interest to homicide investigators,” Welter said. http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2012/01/police-launch-man-hunt-for-north-orange-county-serial-killer/
I am confused, are you saying that I am trying to help the killer avoid capture? Really?
Can you read?
I said “Geoff’s article just doesn’t help by saying it’s a gang member.”
Not ” help the killer avoid capture.”
I don’t think Geoff is trying to find the killer – that’s the police’s job. Geoff is reporting on the police’s efforts to find the killer, and getting nothing but flack from the lefties on here. Are you all saying that quoting an anonymous source is wrong? If that’s the case, so are numerous reporters who do it routinely. Or are you saying he’s lying and making his source up? Don’t worry, I don’t expect anyone to actually answer those direct questions.
You’ve got no room to talk with regard to avoiding direct questions.
That said…
Anonymous sourcing in stories is common. TOO common. Stories are ALWAYS stronger with multiple sources who go on the record. What, are you saying that anonymous sources NEVER use that privilege to plant propagandistic information?
What I would say Geoff is doing is TOO EASILY buying the story of an anonymous source. Journalists, at least good ones, ALWAYS maintain a healthy skepticism, especially with anonymous sources.
There’s your direct answer.
And I guess with your logic, then Woodward and Bernstein were also too easily buying Deep Throat as a source. So the whole breaking the Watergate story was irresponsible according to you. Glad you clarified.
It never astounds me how people can misuse basic logic…while constructing towering straw men.
Newbie, here’s a direct question for you; can you point out where I said that using an anonymous source is “irresponsible”?
Or are you going to disappear and not answer that?
Your analogy to Woodward and Bernstein is ludicrous, because they had a combination of MULTIPLE anonymous sources, as well as MULTIPLE on the record sources, all of which provided corroboration and painted a comprehensive picture.
That is not the case with the subject of this post.
Woodward and Bernstein knew EXACTLY who Deepthroat was; they knew he was well-positioned to be knowledgeable and reliable; and they knew he had a hell of good reason to be anonymous.
Geoff doesn’t know who the Register’s anonymous law enforcement source was. Granted, the Register reporter did, and Geoff is trusting the Register. {add snark at will] Why did this source demand anonymity? No good reason we readers can tell. It’s given way too freely by all manner of news sources these days.
Not many parallels with Deepthroat.
First, that shows you how much you read. It is MY direct source and I know EXACTLY who he is and I know EXACTLY what his relationship with the investigation is. The Register has nothing to do with this story. Diamond, Anonster and all always pop off “Well, if you have read the story . . ..” I DO read the stories, you folks evidently don’t think that is required. I think I am done with the Juice. Diamonds muddy writing (no wonder he gets very few hits) and his unintelligent snarky attitude is encouraging me to take my wares to my own blog.
Newbster: He’s. Got. Nothing.
There’s an anonymous quote from what may or may not be an actual source and he doesn’t necessarily even know where it is.
It’s exactly like my asserting that an anonymous source believes that the killings have been done as part of a fraternity initiation. Happy to clarify.
This doesn’t have a gang flavor to it. There’s not much machismo involved in stabbing a sleeping transient.
Perhaps Geoff disagrees.
Geoff never corrected his slanders of Kelly Thomas and his defense of the killer cops, so far as I know.
Careful Mr. Bushala, an accusation of slander can be slander in and of itself. You are in dangerous territory.
Elements of the tort of slander, Counsel?
Sorry you didn’t learn that in law school. I’ve seen some of your legal work, the lack of quality makes sense now.
Oh I’m all a quiver. Good riddance.
Demagogue, you can continue to raise nonsensical arguments all you want. Give me proof that her website had any impact on the crazy shooter … you can’t. And I could point to the times that Democrats used the same tactics (cross hairs), and find some shooting that happened around the same time and make a false connection, but then I would just be making a lousy argument like you.
I believe Demagogue said that she removed that map, just in case it had an impact. Even Sarah had that good sense. Demagogue did NOT say that the map DID have an impact. So he doesn’t need to respond to this.
Typical Newbie strawman. He’s quite adept at building them.
I’m giving you facts Newbie.
Sarah Palin took down the gun crosshairs. She made the connection, or do you think the timing was merely coincidental?
You and Willis are just spitting out theories.
Just returning to this post with the suspect in custody. No street gangs to speak of here. Ocampo was an Iraq Veteran whose last victim was a homeless Vietnam Veteran. #WarIsAwful
That limb that Geoff went out on just snapped.
Reports are that the captured killer is a vet suffering from PTSD. It’s also sad to note that the last victim, a Vietnam vet, was killed by another American soldier, here in America.
That’s the last thing that he should have had to worry about.
We use these soldiers up, and then they are on their own. We don’t take care of our kids after we turn them into killers, and that is a big failing.
That is why I have great admiration for the troops, but, despise the military.
“Just snapped.” Unfortunate word choice in this case. 🙁
Yeah, I should have used failed. You could have changed it for me.
That said, the suspect didn’t just “snap.” His parents were getting divorced, their house was being foreclosed on, and after his deployment, he wrote to his uncle that he “felt alone in the desert.” His mental issues had been building for years. Too bad he didn’t get some help.
If my name were Willis writing about Willis the headline would’ve been…
“Broken Limb May Be Part Of Gang Initiation”
Don’t steal my thunder dude. Just check back in thirty minutes for some fun satire…
Unfortunately, we’ll be living the legacy of Iraq, with its unprecedented 3, 5, 6 or more deployments of individual soldiers, for years to come.
And Afghanistan, as relatively more justified as that was.
More ridiculousness. Geoff didn’t go out on a limb – he simply reported information he received from a source. You cowards don’t have the courage to simply say you think Geoff is making it all up. Rather, you raise the race card, fail to read the story before making your snarky comments, make a stupid comment that it could be the Tea Party, smear Geoff with no evidence, blather on about how anonymous sources are used too much, and make all manner of irrelevant comments. Geoff posted a story from a source he had about a possible lead on the senseless killings of homeless people. It was nothing more than that, yet you lefties can’t help yourselves. And then you think you’re so creative that you write a parody of Geoff to make yourselves feel better after he leaves (along with his many more hits and popular stories). And then you wonder why people support him in his contention that this blog has suffered from quality issues recently. Keep up the good work.
We all know that your going to miss Geoff leading you off into the weeds with his errant assertions and theories.
But hey Newbie, at least he included you in his GOODBYE photo.