A million dollars! A million dollars from a grateful city, dedicated to protecting public safety! A million dollars for a son’s life? A million dollars for an insurance policy payment that will guarantee – that a mom will not sue the City for the wrongful death of her son! Cathy Thomas, the mother of Kelly Thomas – a homeless person with some mental problems – raises her hand and accepts the payment of cash, before the trial for wrongful death even begins. Doesn’t sound right does it?
Ron Thomas – the father of homeless person Kelly Thomas says: Says he will not accept any payments from the City and give anything may recieve in the future to a Homeless Foundation in Kelly’s name. Ron Thomas says that the City of Fullerton already offered him and he turned down $900,000 dollars – if he would just sign an agreement NOT to sue later and shut up.
This is all a very dirty business. We need the Feds and the State Attorney General right in the middle of this…..right now.
We refuse to discuss any of the facts of Kelly’s death. What we do ask is this: Why was Kelly homeless?
“We refuse to discuss any of the facts of Kelly’s death. What we do ask is this: Why was Kelly homeless?”
What? You refuse to discuss the facts about his killing, but you can’t figure out why a schizophrenic man was homeless? Am I missing some intended irony? Let me make it short for you: He was homeless because, reportedly, he had difficulty living indoors because he was schizophrenic and experienced the world in a different way than those of us who are not schizophrenic, and sometimes preferred to be outdoors. Not a good life, but I don’t like the implication that his mother is somehow to blame for it.
Why are you afraid of discussing the circumstances surrounding his death?
*Dr. Matt Leslie: The Death of Kelly of Thomas is being adjuicated by the DA of Orange County. The assessments of anyone except a jury are pure speculation.
If you sir had a child who had mental problems and was homeless….what would you
do? Leave him out on the street without help or hope? If Kelly liked the wide open spaces so much…why was he still in Fullerton? Why wasn’t he in Bartsow?
Then when he is killed or dies by whatever means – would YOU take a million dollars from a City that was possibly responsible – after YOU had done nothing to treat your child for all the years that went before?
Ugly situation dude…very ugly!
Should his mother have had him kidnapped and locked in a room somewhere? You can’t force people to take medication, and you can’t hold them against their will. If Kelly Thomas wanted to live outside there wasn’t much they could do about it. What would you have had her do (“Dr.?”). What would you have had her do about the lawsuit, hold out for two million, five million, a hundred million? Tell me, because I don’t know the current price for a human life.
Your suggestion that he live in Barstow is revoltingly flippant, and undeserving of a response. Why don’t you stop questioning the motives of a murdered man’s mother and ask why police officers beat a harmless man into a coma, and why they walked the streets with guns for weeks after.
‘Ships, this is ugly. Do you know the first thing about wrongful death suits? About punitive damages?
Her son was killed — horribly. It’s on video. Thousands are watching it. It’s probably seared into her mind permanently. Even imagining the events happening after the 18″ mark of the video to one of my kids leaves me feeling frantic.
Some of the million dollars functions as compensation for Kelly’s, and for her, pain and suffering. Some of it functions as, in essence, punitive damages. There’s been a robust debate over the years within the profession of law over who should get punitive damages in a wrongful death case — and no one has come up with a better solution than the money going to the closest next of kin.
Maybe we’d all be better off if it went to the American Cancer Society, but that invites collusion between the Fullerton city government and representatives of the charity, to lessen the impact on the city — maybe even turn it into a PR coup.
No — that’s not acceptable. Punitive damages are supposed to punish. They are supposed to push the city to make reforms. To slam someone for seeking and taking punitive damages in this situation, thereby forcing the city to take what has happened seriously, is grotesque. This was not a matter of her selling Kelly Thomas’s life for a million dollars — and I’ll bet that if she had a million dollars and had been able to intercede before Jay Cicinelli beat her son’s face in, she’d have gladly paid it.
Matt — thanks for speaking up. As you may know from my writing earlier this week, I think that the video shows that only one police officer, Cicinelli, can fairly be charged with “beating a harmless man into a coma.” Ramos and Wolfe needed retraining — although they were doing exactly what the city wanted them to do, so what they actually needed was better instructions and supervision. The other three walking the streets with guns for weeks after doesn’t bother me and I don’t think that it should bother you. From their perspective when they arrived on the scene, they were subduing a probable violently resisting felon. (They hadn’t seen the video either, you know.) Just as I believe in being fair to the family, I believe in being fair to them.
*Timing fellas…..timing. Very poor timing. Very poor choices. Very poor regard for human life. Very poor concept of: WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Don’t ask us. We will tell you. Kelly would have been put into a facility by someone. You act as if Kelly’s only option was to wander the streets of Fullerton and sleep in a trash can. Are you nutso?
Tell us …..you have a 13 year old runaway daughter. She is working the streets of Santa Ana as a prostitute. You goin throw up your hands and say: There is nothing I can do…she does what she wants. When she is killed by a John or run over by Parking Patrol officer…because she was drunk…..what: You take a million dollars from the city of Santa Ana so you won’t sue? You guys need a Ethics and Logic course.
Take personal responsibility for your siblings….sounds basic to us. What, are we living in the Dark Ages. It’s a new world where life doesn’t mean much except a paycheck? What would you guys do – without your beloved video to fall back on?
No relation of Kelly Thomas should take a penny….before the results of the trial are complete. Remember the OJ Simpson verdict? You can alway sue for Civil Damages….anytime, even if you lose in the Criminal proceedings.
You cannot throw up your hands and then take the big money for failing to be exhibit great parenting skills…..can you?
Kelly was a grown man, and not a danger to himself or others. He was and should have been perfectly free to wander around Fullerton whenever he wanted. Give up, Winships.
Do I really have to explain to you that the purpose of a settlement is to avoid the cost of a trial and the possibility of a worse (bigger or smaller, depending on one’s perspective) award? With that video, she could probably get much more from the city in court — if she cared to.
Do you really not understand that this IS the “civil damages” settlement?
*We understand that she is totally off the rails. Why didn’t she offer to have Kelly stay in her backyard? Collecting cash before the bodied is bearly buried is poor sport at best. Dr. D., do you understand the difference between right and wrong? Ethically, reprehensible!
We hope Ron Thomas holds out for $10 million! But after the trial….please!
Do you have any idea what she did and did not offer to do for her mentally ill son? If not, please have the decency not to make such charges.
Again, you usually settle a case so that you don’t have a trial. I don’t think that Fullerton really wants a trial here. Maybe the payment would be less money if they make Ron Thomas head of a Citizens’ Police Commission with oversight power and with teeth. That would be ideal — but it’s his son, so it’s his call.
*So, you don’t support the Recall? You think the present Admin is just jolly then?
Thanks for asking. No, I don’t think that present Admin is just jolly.
I support recalling McKinley regardless of the consequences, due to his role in the hiring and management of the police force. That’s enough to eliminate the working majority on the Council. I expect Chaffee to get that seat. I’d be OK with Rowe getting it. As for Levinson getting it, see below.
I support recalling Jones unless he announces that he will not run in November (in which event I don’t care if he stays another half year in the minority), due to his reactions to the Kelly Thomas event as Mayor. I think that the odds are about 50-50 between Georgieff and Kiger, though maybe Birsic has support that I don’t anticipate.
My concern with recalling Bankhead — who played a less direct role in causing or public reaction to the fiasco — is the prospect of electing Sebourn as well as Kiger (though I think that Georgieff will beat Kiger), giving the FFFF slate a majority of the Council. This is the hardest race to call. The vote is being divided up in all sorts of ways and I could see any of the four winning. (Yes, including Paula Williams, about who I’ll be writing before long.)
If the FFFF slate would agree to constrain its actions and not dismantle the city government a la Costa Mesa, then I’d be OK with risking their taking control of the government for a half-year. But they can do a great deal of damage in that time — and they won’t pledge not to. So I’m not making a recommendation on the Bankhead race. If Levinson and Kiger look likely to lose, then yes; if one or both looks likely to win, then no.
After the fool Levinson made of himself at Tuesday night’s Council meeting, I doubt he could–or should–be elected for anything. Is someone who throws temper tantrums when he feels slighted really someone we need on Council right now? Someone who’s so sure he has all the right answers he loses it when someone has the temerity to disagree? If this how the FFFF slate intends to govern, they really do need to be kept on the fringes.
I wasn’t there on Tuesday (due to a family emergency overseas) and I haven’t seen the video. What did he do?
I believe FFFF put the whole thing up.
Check out his antics during the public comments near the beginning of the meeting. I think he was trying to channel Huey Long but he came off more like Foghorn Leghorn. Its on the City’s website under the City Clerk’s page in case FFFF does some creative editing.
I think this post is shameful. The short and best answer as to why Mrs. Thomas chose to settle is that its none of our business. We can speculate; maybe she didn’t want to deal with the extended trauma of going through a trial. Maybe she’s ready to move on with her life and let the criminal system take its course. Even Ron Thomas had the decency to support his ex-wife. Has this turned into such a circus that people who have no part in this family’s tragedy think they can presume to tell the victim’s mother what’s right and wrong and when enough is enough?
As I said in another post, For some people, there will never be enough cops prosecuted or fired, never be enough ways for the City Council to apologize, and never be an end to vilifying anyone connected with Kelly Thomas’ killing. But there is a difference between vengeance and justice.
What good would come of a $10 million settlement? It would drive the city further into debt and hurt all of its residents for years to come. Is that really what you want?
An innocent man is dead, and his family has the right to do what they feel is right. We can all join in the call for justice to be done, but none of us has the right to dictate how they deal with it to them. Leave the poor man and his family some shred of dignity.