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Kelly Thomas’ father Ron posted this last night on Facebook, and the Weekly has already picked it up:
Ron Thomas, and reformist Fullerton Police Chief Danny Hughes.
It is time to share with everyone the news of another victory in the pursuit of Justice for Kelly. Even though you don’t hear from me that often these days, I do continue to work every day on getting the justice that my son deserves. For 14 months now, I as well as many hundreds of you have wanted Kelly’s name cleared. Over the last three weeks, Captain Dan Hughes, acting Chief of Police in Fullerton and I have been working on wording that I have now approved as to clearing Kelly’s name.
Next Tuesday, September 18th at 6:30pm during the Fullerton City Council Meeting, Captain Hughes is going to speak to the City Council in a public forum and clear Kelly of ALL wrong doings that he was accused of. Please attend this meeting and show you continued support for Kelly. Also, there is another “Bomb-Shell” on the way. Stay tuned for that! I also want to put a rumor to rest. It is being said that Kelly’s Army is disbanded. This is not true at all. We all know about the little group of “Haters”. This is just more of there BS. Negativity and hatred will get us no where.
As always I want to thank everyone for everything that you do for Kelly. Because of all of the positive people who continue the fight, there will be Justice for Kelly!
*
And outspoken liberal activist and artist Stephan “Bax” Baster was inspired to comment, LATER last night:
Bax.
.
Tonight Ron Thomas posted that Chief Hughes plans to clear Kelly’s name at Tuesday’s meeting. If this is true, this is a major victory. Our knee jerk reaction may be to say that this is too little too late, but this is one of the things so many of us have been fighting for over the last 14 months and we should celebrate it.
In February of this year I very ineloquently demanded this very thing at city council. There is still a jury pool out there amongst us, who one day will be called to sit on the criminal trial with historic charges filed on two “on duty” officers; Jay Cicinelli for manslaughter and Manual Ramos for second degree murder. If the last thing this jury, in whose fate their future hangs, had heard from the Fullerton PD were Police Spokesman Andrew Goodrich’s and other officers lies, claiming that Kelly was breaking into cars, that Kelly inflicted injuries on officers, that Kelly was the aggressor, that Kelly had escalated the situation, that these officers were in the fight of their lives etc., all now all disproven, it may have exonerated these two thugs.
For the acting Chief, regardless of motive (I will go on the assumption they are pure), of the department that murdered Kelly, to clear the murder victim’s name before the trial of two of his officers, IS MAJOR. You will be hard pressed to find another example anywhere in California where this has been done before.
To all of you who have contributed to seeking Justice 4 Kelly over the last 14 months, in any capacity, I thank you, and you should take a few moments and enjoy this news. (For the record Jesse LaTour, currently spinning records at Mulberry Street, was the first person ever to ask the city council to investigate what happened to a homeless man at the transportation center on July 5th, 2011 and he did this weeks before I was tuned in.) Our fight will not be over as long as charges have not been filed on Joe Wolfe, and the other three (Hampton, Craig, and Blatney) are still receiving paychecks from the city of Fullerton, but the clearing of Kelly’s name by FDP is historic, and this is a what a little piece of justice looks and feels like. Be proud of yourselves tonight, then continue to the fight until all our demands are met.
To those of you who are sick of hearing about Kelly Thomas, some of you who have told me this are long time friends. You have told me that you are tired of all my posts on the subject, that I am obsessed etc. Well, I knew Kelly, and I truly liked him, he was mentally ill, but like you, 
he was a good person, this is what you do when someone you like is victimized. This is why so many of us continue the fight. We are getting results!! We cleared an innocent man’s name! If it were you who was beaten to death in this way, and then maligned by those that killed you, we would have done the same thing for you as well. I promise you that is true. If you help us, this will all be over sooner.
To Jan Flory, Doug Chaffee, Pam Keller, Rick Alvarez, Don Bankhead, Kitty Jaramillo, and the rest of you that wore “I Love The Fullerton Police” shirts, but not once ever wore a shirt or made a statement in support of an innocent man who was murdered by members of that same Police Department you so unconditionally love, you were and continue to be on the wrong side of history.
Of the challengers for city council only Jane Rands and Barry Levinson were there with us, where the hell where you? You are political hacks and your psyche is such that you identify with the bully not the victim. In this, our post-Kelly Thomas Fullerton, we have no room for you and your kind. You are Fullerton’s equivalent of Eugene “Bull” Connor, the man who in 1963 unleashed the dogs and fire hoses on civil rights marchers Birmingham Alabama, and like him, you may still not feel any shame for this, but get ready, we will shame you.
I plan to shame you relentlessly starting at the next council meeting, if you do not step up. This is a New Fullerton and you will soon be irrelevant if you do not acknowledge that work is still unfinished, that Joe Wolfe needs to be charged and the other three need to be fired. It’s not too late, you can join us, there is no seniority in seeking justice. Ride the wave of justice with us, or drowned when it hits you … and I promise you with all the resources, creativity and energy that I can muster up, that it will hit you really fucking hard if you don’t!!
Nice picture, Bax.
It is good to hear that they are clearing Kellys name when he did nothing wrong! Its never too late to do the right thing. Drop all charges against Kelly Thomas and exonerate him. Go after Slidebar and DeMarco who made a false police report. I am happy that they are going to clear Kelly Thomas name. Good Day, Margaret Farris
Always good to hear that something positive for justice is happening and Kelly definitely deserves to be exonerated for all wrong doings that did not actually occur and lies that were told on him and it certainly has taken a while for this day to come.
Alot of us showed love to a human and his family, some of us knew and some of us didn’t know.
Baxter is a kind/helpful/talented/grieving human being, with that said, some are not at the place Bax is at and don’t feel certain things like he does -they need education in my opine.
Ron and Cathy Thomas have had to deal and grieve for their loss of a child in public-Im still not sure that they have been able to fully grieve yet, hopefully this will help a little. They have been requesting this for a while now.
IM sure the money will help a lot. Cathy doesn’t even show up for court. She has her money. Ron is hoping to get his. I hope he doesn’t. Ok, you got your so call justice for Kelly, now go away.
Their kid was beat to death, show a little respect.
Hughes said he saw the video 400 times and that it would change everyone’s
mind. What happened Hughes now you are taking it back. If this goes to trial they are going to put you on the stand to testify and what are you going to do?…. Lie? That is going to be very interesting.
He’s going to say that the video shows that Kelly resisted arrest — which, given the expansive definition of “resisting arrest” that police, prosecutors, and courts use, he technically did when he stood up and definitely did when he fled. (That does not mean that the arresting officer’s responses were in any way proportional to the offense or to the risk he posed. And Cicinelli’s actions exonerate the FPD only because he went so far beyond what was appropriate that he had to be nuts.)
The apology is about going after Kelly in the first place — and that is completely appropriate. What isn’t clear is whether it was in response simply to a misleading call from the Slidebar or whether that call was part of an implicit arrangement with commercial establishments there that if they ever wanted a homeless guy taken away from the plaza these were the magic words they had to say.
It is lawful to, not only, resist excessive force by police but to overcome it using whatever force necessary.
Use of force by police does not come wearing a neon sign saying whether it is “excessive” or not. What you say is technically true, but hard for a person being attacked by a cop to judge in real time. Plus the cops use different standards in deciding what’s appropriate and courts usually back them up.
It is lawful to, not only, resist excessive force by police but to overcome it using whatever force necessary.
I agree with everything you said except the part about it being hard for the victim to judge the level of force. This is often not a fuzzy line or gray area. Part of this crime is being charged with a fabricated crime. Being unwilling to spend the time and money fighting a misdemeanor charge and risk losing rather than take a cheap, fast plea bargain is one of the reasons this crime is so common.
Fair enough — sometimes that may be easy to judge, but usually less easy than people think it is and generally not sufficient to persuade investigators, judge, and jury.
Trumped up charges is the key to this case. If the practice existed and FPD didn’t know about it, then Ramos and Wolfe could be personally liable. If the FPD did know about it, they could still theoretically be held personally liable, but that’s not the way I’d bet.
Who wouldn’t flee when someone is swinging a baton at you? Especially someone with a mental illness. Seems like his “resisting” was forced upon him by all the violence
Your question is posed as if the “swinging a baton at” him came out of nowhere. You can’t start in the middle like that and expect a good answer; imagine doing that in a fistfight, where you can always claim that Person A was justified in punching Person B because Person B punched Person A — and vice versa. You have to trace back the chain of events.
Wolfe swung the baton at Kelly to knock him down because he was fleeing from Ramos. If Wolfe believed the detention to be lawful, there’s nothing wrong with that. You’re just not used to seeing it happen.
Kelly was fleeing from Ramos because Ramos threatened to beat him if he didn’t cooperate. You’re not supposed to flee, although as you say that was understandable.
Ramos threatened Kelly because Kelly stood up after being told to stay seated (along with some other problems with cooperation.) That may have been stupid and may have been a violation of department policy — or it may have been considered acceptable.
Kelly didn’t fully cooperate for reasons including that he was mentally ill and that his dignity was being challenged. Understandable, but not a legal justification not to cooperate.
We can go back further than that — all the way to the call from the Slidebar and whatever may or may not have preceded it. But starting in the middle, at a time of your choosing to make your best case, will get us nowhere.
Let’s be fair on this. The above story line is very debatable and we’ll never know why Kelly initially backed away from Ramos or Wolfe– because Kelly is dead and we can’t ask him.
Stating that Wolfe hit Kelly with a baton because Kelly was (already) running away in order to knock him down presumes a lot of facts that aren’t in evidence. This statement is absolutely not supported by the video.
The raw truth is that Kelly Thomas is dead; six Fullerton cops are not.
I think that it’s pretty clear why Kelly wanted to get away. He had good reason to want to do so.
I said that Kelly was “fleeing,” not “running.” He was engaged in “flight” — in his case, turning and starting to walk away. I chose that term precisely. What other explanation do you have for Kelly’s moving away from the police just before Wolfe swung at him? Check the video.
Yeah, that’s the “raw truth” all right. As usual, that fact does not come with its implications all spelled out for us.
Because some dude with a club was walking at him in a menacing fashion after his buddy just threatened to kick his ass. Do you really think he wasn’t going to get hit with that stick irregardless of his motion?
Alas, I digress. What I wanted to highlight is that we’ll never know what Kelly’s intentions were. And that’s a very sad thing.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on the “running” comment. I always hate to question my reading comprehension skills . . .
I think that if he put fell to his knees with his hands up he might have had a shot, but he was likely going to get hit. He had unilaterally decided to call off his being arrested. You do that, you get hit. I’m not saying it’s right; I’m saying it’s what is. He seemed to understand that, too — he just overestimated his ability to escape.
I didn’t see Kelly run until Wolfe swung the baton. What I saw was him jump up aggitated and that’s when Wolfe decided to take him down
Do we agree that Wolfe tried to hit him in the back of the legs?
If so, I have a good explanation for why that is: he had turned around (although he had not yet started to run.) The back of his legs were thus facing Wolfe. What’s your explanation?
I’ll go review the video if I have to, but I don’t expect to have to.
Kelly started fleeing because Wolfe was coming at him. That’s why he turned, to get away from Wolfe when he saw him coming at him
At this point, Nanette, I’d just have to repeat what I’ve already written above. We don’t disagree on this: he had turned because he was scared and wanted to exit the situation. So that leaves the question: was he within his rights to flee, or were Ramos and Wolfe within their rights to detain him — using force if necessary?
Unless Ramos and Wolfe knew that the bust was a “roust” of Kelly, they were their in their rights to use force if necessary to arrest him. That does not justify killing him, nor does it justify anything the Cicinelli did. But at this point, unless he was being rousted illegitimately, this is just what an arrest looks like. It’s unpleasant to watch, definitely.
Here’s a still of Kelly when Wolfe started coming at him
[img]http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.4886157394774280&pid=1.7&w=181&h=129&c=7&rs=1[/img]
That shows him having half-turned away. Show it in the context of what came before and after and you see that he was turned to flee.
What do you suppose that arresting people involves? A gentle Vulcan neck pinch?
I certainly wouldn’t just stand there and take it, would you?
Yes, he was turning to flee when he saw Wolfe coming at him, which is what I said
“Turning to flee” is part of “fleeing.”
I don’t know what I would do in that situation. I’d very possibly get myself killed, I suppose. I’d like to think that I’d have gone along with the arrest before it got to that point.
So your advice to everyone is to resist arrest when you think that the cops are wrong, or what is it that you’re saying?
I’m just saying that it’s a natural reflex to avoid being hit. In Kelly’s case, in light of his mental illness, they could have showed him more patience instead of using the F word over and over and making threats
Well, yeah. Another natural reflex might be to punch the attacker in the face. That’s also a bad idea (although in this case the outcome could have been no worse.)
Great news. And keeping giving them hell Bax!
Gigi, I will not go away until all our demands are met. Let me put it in terms you may understand. Think of it as a “do to list”. Get criminal charges field on Ramos (check), get criminal charges filed on some Cicinelli (check), Get criminal charges filed on Joe Wolfe (pending), Force former chief Sellers into retirement (check), raise $10,000 for the local homeless in one night (check), fire the remaining three officers Hampton (pending), Craig (pending), Blatney (pending). Recall Bankhead, Dick Jones, and McKinley (check), do this within the first year of the murder (check). Put the fear of God into everyone who was complicit in the murder of Kelly Thomas, in or out of uniform, (check). Get the first murder conviction of any-duty officer in California’s over 100 year legal history, ever! (pending). What’s on your to-do list this weeking? Post some dribble, Fix that screen door, and then fuck off? This seems like all you can handle. Happy Sunday!
check, check, check Bax! Let’s hope the pendings change to “check” soon. And Gigi, Cathy Thomas works for a living and still needs her job. She plans to take time off once the trial starts. If you are curious about her life and why she hasn’t been to the past few court appearances, just ask her. She is open about it. These continued delays were not the time to take time off; the time is coming. I believe, then she will be there.
Correct Tricia, those court things were merely delays and lasted about 10 mins-the trial has not begun yet. Cathy is doing her best under the circumstances-we must support her.
Stephen, I see with your language that I annoyed you…mission accomplished. Hughes just repeated what Genanco said. Where was the apology?
F*** off, Gigi, your desperation is showing
Btw, Vern. it would be a sin to call me an artist. I love the art of others. I have a jobby job.
So, Bax, you’re presumably for Jane, right? But the race for the two non-Whitaker spots is between Flory, Kiger, Bankhead, Fitzgerald, Alvarez, Jaramillo, and maybe Jane. I have no problem with your going after Bankhead with your sign — it’s embarrassing that he’s even running — but can you explain why you so prefer Kiger over Flory? I think that you’ve been captured.
Only you know what being captured feels like Greg. Read my statement above.
Hey GIGI, do me a favor dear, would you put a check mark by Wolfe for me? Thanks
Wolfe is going to be charged, confimed by Ron Thomas just a few moments ago by phone – we just don’t know with what yet.
If Wolfe knew that there was a scheme to allow nearby businesses to have police remove transients from the vicinity by making spurious calls to police, then he should be charged. And maybe they found that he did something bad in the scrum. I presume that he’s not going to be charged for clubbing Kelly in the leg to knock him down in the act of trying to escape — because that’s part of his job.
Then again, I’m of the school that says that the DA overcharged Ramos and undercharged Cicinelli.
I don’t know if there was a scheme regarding making false calls using certain “code” words, I do know that around the time and a year before Kelly was killed, the homeless in Fullerton were being rounded up and dumped in Lapalma park in Anaheim. If Wolfe knew about that could the same apply as you wrote above?
The question is whether they had legitimate cause to detain him, or thought that they did, or knew that they didn’t.
I will, but it will not stick.
Michael Gennaco cleared Kelly’s name. I think clearing Kelly’s name is more important to you than it should be. I think it is about you. Are you standing against police brutality or standing against police brutality inflicted on people who are innocent? What difference would it make if Kelly had committed a crime? Police brutality is a horrible crime-a crime of abuse. Does it make you feel better to stand up for a man who is innocent? Would you stand with a criminal who was also a victim of police brutality? This is not an accusation. There are reasons, there are obstacles that cause us to ignore this crime much of the time. We need to be able to take a hard look at ourselves and find what stops us from standing with other victims.
Diamond – every step of the way, we force their hand and we further justice, while you hinder and then concede. Our roles are defined, and I like mine so much better than yours.
Bax, you’re a decent guy, even if a bit deluded here and there, so I’m going to try not to give you the sort of response you’ve earned.
Greg is an attorney and Bax is passionate, intelligent and regular (I’m assuming in or out of the bathroom)- two different views. Im not an attorney either, I don’t want to hear legal-eze, i know what i see, I know what I’ve heard, I know what my intelligent mind processes, unfortunately the written law is the very thing the defense is going to use to clear their client, the police also have “special laws” just for them, aint that “special” but also take in consideration that new case laws do occur and will ammend anything that is now written in “stone”
The law can certain be abused, merijoe. But using “written law” to defend someone is not generally “abuse” — it’s honoring the Constitution.
As I’ve said, my take is that Cicinelli should be convicted and Ramos and Wolfe shouldn’t be — unless they were shown to be knowingly violating the law. (And no, threatening to punch someone if they try to escape from your custody is not serious enough to qualify. Police have some discretion in how they get people to cooperate. It may have been, and I think was, a stupid approach to take, but not an illegal one.)
I think that if you beat someone to death, you should go to jail.
What if they have a gun?
What if you’re trying to make a lawful arrest and didn’t intend such a result?
I could go on; that’s why we have trials. In any event, Cicinelli was the one who actually beat him to death, apparently without the prodding or even advance knowledge of his fellow officers, and in his case I agree with you.
I never thought about written law being used is “honoring the Constitution” that you write – that’s really true, and that’s my bag, but,
I’m leaning more to seeing it as being used to “abuse” the situtation so it turns out the way they want it to, like getting a job back for a friend who is a dishonest, bad worker because you happen to know the president or own the company.
I agree with that concern, merijoe. I don’t think that it applies here, though.
Diamond you would not know justice if it fingered Albert Rincon style.
*For those unfamiliar with the system: Telling a police officer that you are calling your mom……is considered “Resisting Arrest”. Saying: “What did you say?” is considered “Resisting Arrest”. Saying: “You are breaking my arm!” is considered “Resisting Arrest”. Not answering a quesiton by the police: Is considered “Resisting Arrest”.
Hey folks….it’s modern days!
I not only know justice, Stephan, but I know enough not to make cheap jokes about sexual molestation.
I recognize that you are tremendously self-impressed at having stood up for one white guy who was probably rousted and then killed in the midst of an arrest when a crazed cop showed up on the scene and went all Barney Fife on him — just you and a multi-millionaire with a withering blog and screaming mob behind him — and that you now feel that you’ve found your proper station in life (albeit as a useful dupe for people who would like to destroy public services altogether, which would be surprisingly ineffective at helping the likes of Kelly Thomas.) I recognize that this has led you to leave the Democratic Party, leave liberalism, and beat your chest as you proclaim your individualism and bravery.
Struggling against excessive use of police force is a good thing. I wish you well with your future enterprises in that area. You may find it a little harder when you’re dealing with minority kids who garner less public sympathy and who don’t have Tony Bushala riding to their rescue because he sees a clever way to topple the Fullerton city government and replace the incumbents with nihilists, but you should not let that stop you from pursuing the good fight in pursuit of justice. One can hardly doubt that you’d find the same level of help, right?
I look forward to the next chapters of your heroic and lonely saga. By the way, learning some fundamental basics of criminal law wouldn’t hurt you in that quest. Just sayin’.
Not cool, Greg. Not cool.
He opened with “Diamond – every step of the way, we force their hand and we further justice, while you hinder and then concede. Our roles are defined, and I like mine so much better than yours.”
I replied “Bax, you’re a decent guy, even if a bit deluded here and there, so I’m going to try not to give you the sort of response you’ve earned.”
He came back with “Diamond you would not know justice if it fingered [you] Albert Rincon style.”
I think we’re beyond considerations of “cool” at this point. Bax apparently wanted the sort of response that he had earned; now he’s gotten it. (The first part of it, anyway.)
You know how some Democrats don’t fight back? I’m not one of those.
I know you’re not sir, but I have higher expectations for your retorts that what you wrote.
The obviously facetious parts aside, with what do you disagree?
Lots of people celebrate themselves for being part of the dogpile on the FPD over the Kelly Thomas killing. Last Sunday, something like seven people showed up at the continuing Anaheim PD protest over their excessive use of force. I think that people congratulate themselves more easily than they ought. If one is dedicated to fighting against excessive use of force police by police, there’s more than one victim to consider and it needs to be done even without major business sponsorship. Perhaps Bax will lead in such a struggle.
For some reason i read all this tonight, and it made me sad. My righteous arrogance of four years ago is embarrassing. I could not have been more wrong. Gigi, Greg, all the detractors … if you still walk this planet, I apologize. You called it, I fucked it all up. My ego, Ron’s ego, the DA’s ego, we all fucked it up. This should have been history making, instead we confirmed that they can kill anyone of us, whenever they like, cameras or no cameras, and get away with it. I’m gutted, I’m humbled, andI am a totally different person than i was in 2012. I’m jaded as fuck. respect to those who saw this coming. I did not.
I hope that you already know this without it being said out loud, but you are being way too hard on yourself. There’s no guidebook to get people through that sort of situation; we do the best that we can.