.
This morning’s Orange County Register features a fine investigative piece by new reporter Keegan Kyle reporting that the Anaheim Police Department may not only have one of the more dismal records in the State for solving crime, but they appear to have created an accountability system that covers over those numbers when reporting to the City Council and the public. So much for that transparency they claim is good enough that it makes civilian oversight unnecessary. The investigative piece spreads over the entire first half of the Register’s Local section, and frankly justifies every nickel I pay for my subscription.
Tenfold.
Keegan Kyle (pictured at right) was hired by the paper this past November, as part of the journalism build-up leading to a “paywall” system to cover the paychecks of those journalists the Register lured into the Grand Avenue headquarters. Freedom Communications made a very smart investment in Mr. Kyle.
Now, because I know many of our readers do not subscribe to the Register, I have copied and pasted more elements of their article into this review than I would usually do, so that we may discuss at least the high points of the article. But I would encourage our readers to go pony up for at least the daily feed so you can read the whole thing for yourself, this guy’s paycheck was worth a few bucks to you, trust me on that. Just go do it, you cheap bastards.
*********
Now on to the article.
The Anaheim Police Department, once regarded as a crime-solving champion among California law-enforcement agencies, has registered a dramatic fall over the past decade. From 1998 to 2002, the department reported solving about 73 percent of violent crimes — an extraordinary record. Since 2002 police have reported solving only about 43 percent of violent crimes.
No Orange County law-enforcement agencies and no major police departments in the state have logged steeper declines than Anaheim’s. Most have seen gains in crime solving, little change or slight drops.
Anaheim police are unsure exactly what factors may be responsible for the decline. They suggested that recent staffing cuts, more gang violence and even incorrect statistics might explain the changes. But two things are clear: Police have never reported the decade-long decline to residents or the City Council. And the downward trend most affects the city’s disadvantaged communities. Violent crime is far more common in Anaheim neighborhoods west of the 57. In this lower-income, more ethnically diverse area, police reported the vast majority of crime last year.
The article itself is long, as I’ve mentioned, eating up the entire front half of the Local section. My commentary is going to make it longer – and as you MIGHT know, MY commentary can make the discussion MUCH longer. So we will break the article down piece by piece during the next few days for further debate.
What is clear is that even when APD numbers appear to reflect better rates of crime-solving, it’s because of a shift in reporting standards, not an increase in actual criminals pulled off the streets.
Police concluded the number of solved cases had been an error, [Captain] Conklin said. The department’s sex crimes unit had a new sergeant that year, and he didn’t know all of the FBI’s statistical definitions.
An arrest is the standard event that police use to count the number of solved crimes. But the FBI also allows police to count cases in several unusual situations not involving an arrest. The suspect may have died or couldn’t be extradited from another country. Or police might have a suspect but the victim won’t cooperate with prosecutors.
According to FBI rules, police are supposed to at least identify the offender, know the person’s location and have enough information to support charges before counting the case as solved.
Conklin said the sex crimes sergeant didn’t know about the unusual situations and had only been counting the number of rape cases involving an arrest.
Last year, after the sergeant became aware of the rules, the rate of solving rape cases jumped to 74 percent from 19 percent. Combined, the number of cases solved by police in 2011 and 2012 was more typical.
Still, at least 480 rape cases remain unsolved since 2002.
“Guess what else I’ve left my successor?”
Now I don’t know about you, but to me this says that while APD still has only 19% of rapists in jail, they are now taking credit for 74% “solved” because they “identify the offender, know the person’s location and have enough information to support charges.” Knowing who the rapist is does not comfort this Anaheim resident as much as – oh, say, knowing he is in jail!
What is also clear is that the system was set up as yet another parting gift by Curt Pringle on his way out of the Mayor’s office. The Police department’s budget is tied in part to “solve rates.” The Register reports that the formula changed in 2011, following adoption of the new formula in the budget approved in mid-2010 by then Mayor Curt Pringle – a budget and new formula he left behind for Mayor Tom Tait to implement.
However, that increase only materialized on paper after police began excluding property crimes from the numbers, few of which they solve. Had the format been consistent, the budget would have shown the decline in crime solving.
The statistics switch was part of a citywide makeover that began in 2010. The city slashed most performance metrics from its budget documents and redefined others. The goal, Finance Director Debbie Moreno said, was to create a simpler, user-friendly report.
The Police Department’s new metrics were chosen by Welter and former City Manager Tom Wood, and then approved by the City Council with the rest of the budget. Welter said the city switched to only violent crimes because the category has a more drastic effect on the community and the numbers are considered more reliable.
Could this have something to do with Chief Welter’s sudden departure? Some have tried to portray his impending retirement as a reaction to the debate on oversight boards, but the reality is Chief Welter had wanted to announce his retirement last summer. Then the “civic unrest” of July and August took place and Welter stayed longer. Some insist the Chief is leaving early, but plenty of us know he stayed longer than he expected to. But now that the accountability is hitting the fan, it’s hard to believe he didn’t hit his breaking point with a call for comment from an investigative reporter three days prior to his surprise announcement that he would no longer delay his retirement.
After leading the Police Department for nine years, Welter announced last week that he would retire in May. He said that the timing was unrelated to last year’s unrest, and that he wants to spend more time with family while he remains in good health. He is 64.
In an interview three days before that announcement, Welter said crime solving has been “going in the wrong direction” but downplayed the decade-long fall. He said police had a “really bad computer system” before 2006 so comparing historical numbers was unreliable.
“Quite frankly, it’s worthless for me to even discuss it,” Welter said. “I don’t find that it’s relevant. I don’t find that the information means anything.”
I have been a fan of Chief Welter, he seemed like a great guy who cared about his department and cared about Anaheim, and history may well prove me wrong – it often does. But I’m furious at his dismissal of this issue as worthless and irrelevant. Whether or not cops solve crimes and get the bad guys off the street is highly relevant, and when it appears that numbers have been fudged to continue paying for a taxpayer-funded department failing to reach their goals, we need to have this discussion.
So stay tuned this week as we cover the many facets of the information blocks turned up by the Orange County Register’s Keegan Kyle, it’s sure to be an interesting chat! And go pay for the article online, so you can keep up with us.
Yet another way Curt Pringle screwed Anaheim on the way out.
Is this Low crime solving rate, the reason that our past Mayor Curt Pringle and Kerry Condon head of the Anaheim Police Union. Have been making all of these recent robo-calls to the homes of Anaheim residents? Advising the residents not to agree with our current Mayor Tom Tait on forming an Citizens Police Oversight Committee?
They must be afraid of what transparency might reveal to the residence of Anaheim about our Police Department.
I could not have put it better myself. Obviously this is exactly why Curt Pringle and the APA paid for those robocalls. The more we shine the light on these crooks the more corruption we seem to find. It would be funny if they weren’t milking the taxpayer while they’re doing it.
Let us all concentrate on what is wrong with the APD and forget about Disney ripping us off for hundreds of millions of out tax dollars.
No, Dennis, let’s walk and chew gum!
Vern “Nero” Nelson, Lyre Player:
Today, Monday, theAnaheim Planning Commission approves the $158 million giveaway while you all discuss the APD.
And so we will chew our gum. You really think we haven’t been following THAT issue closely as well?
Now for the pool on how long it takes Matt Cunningham to either dismiss the Register piece as clearly written by biased liberal interests, or attack Keegan Kyle with the record of his high school detention from 10th grade, showing he is clearly not a credible source of information and none of us should listen to him. $10 per person per guess?
He’ll get someone to friend Keegan Kyle on Facebook, and wait for him to post something embarrassing! Even if it’s just a sentence fragment out of context. That’ll do the trick, that’ll keep Matt’s paychecks coming. For a while.
While the article is embargoed, the Facebook comments aren’t. So here we go! On today’s menu, various thoughtful citizens have a discussion with Genevieve Huizar, mother of the slain (execution style, back of the head) Manual Diaz. Here’s some OC hospitality for us all to enjoy:
David Stevenson · Ongoing at Staying Married
Anaheim may be in the OC, and house the Mouse, but anyone who knows the area and the other cities that border it, knows their plight isn’t theirs alone. Anaheim and the Anaheim P.D. will rise to this challenge and clear their name. Seems Chief Welter is the sacrificial lamb. That’s a shame. Transparency isn’t the issue here..it’s candor. The law abiding citizens have got to be tired of those who cause the problems getting the majority of the press. When the Fed’s can figure out how to simplify reporting data (think your 2012 tax return got easier? Case in point.) to keep up with rapidly changing economic demographic diversity in an area like East O.C., then you can compare oranges to apples. Your good name remains with the majority of her citizens Anaheim P.D. May the next Chief realize how fortunate he/she is to lead you.
Reply · 1 · Like · Follow Post · Edited · 4 hours ago
Deb Camargo · Follow · Works at Working to support the tax base
Having served in previous years on a municipal Commission that reviewed the suggestion of a ‘Citizens Oversight Committee’, I cringe at that thought for ANY law enforcement agency. The maps above do NOT account for department hiring that has been unable to keep up with population increases during this economic downturn. Anaheim does ‘more with less’ providing proactive citizen communication and involvement. By the way…there already IS a Citizens Police Oversight Committee in any community. It’s called the City Council. Elected by all citizens qualified and registered to vote. As anyone wishing to run for elected office knows. There’s more than meets the eye of this oversimplified chart. The issue isn’t our Law Enforcement community; it’s those that insist on breaking the law…then blaming those that defend it for protecting it.
Reply · 5 · Like · Follow Post · 4 hours ago
Brian Neil Chuchua · Fullerton Junior College
Is this low crime solving rate, the reason that our past Mayor Curt Pringle and Kerry Condon the current head of the Anaheim Police Union been making all of thes recent Robo Calls to the homes of Anaheim residences advising them not to agree with our current Mayor Tom Tait on forming an Citizens Police Over Site Commiittee? They must be afraid of what Transparency might reveal to the Residences of Anaheim about our Police Deparfment.
Reply · 4 · Like · Follow Post · 7 hours ago
Tracy Wong · Top Commenter · Harvard University
All the more reason to keep Glock, Smith, Wesson, Sig and Sauer in my household, in case surprise, unwanted guests with hoodies invade my home.
Reply · 2 · Like · Follow Post · 13 hours ago
Genevieve Huizar · Follow · Colton High
Chief Welter said above, “He is fedup of (people) using the summer unrest” No, he is FED-UP of having to cover up over his cops who have been executing unharmed men, shooting in the back, as they “feared” for their own lives… this is a crock of s..t… FED-UP is a good word to use, as the apd received Federal money to have these injunctions, trapping citizens in there own apartments, having citizens under survailance, with out them knowing they are being watched. I believe his retirement shows his inability to SERVE and PROTECT the citizens of Anaheim… I pray the next Chief of Police will clean up the mess Welter is leaving behind, that all cases of police brutality are solved. My name is Genevieve Huizar, mother of Manuel Angel Diaz, I don’t care what Manuel did 10 minutes, before, 2 days before, 2 months before, 2 years before, or from the day he was born, No Man should be executed, being shot in the back of the head, they took away his due process… He was not commiting a crime. Bennelleck has killed before Manuel, and will kill again, I pray it’s not your son or daughter.
Reply · Like · Follow Post · 14 hours ago
James Johns · Top Commenter · Katella High School, Anaheim, CA
You said it better than anybody. “I don’t CARE what Manuel did….blah, blah, blah.”
Well, lady, some DO care what “Stomper” did, and we’re glad he’s DONE DOING IT.
Reply · 12 · Like · 14 hours ago
Nancy Torres · Top Commenter
Stomper was around and allowed to germinate because APD is so inept. James you wrote article after article a year ago blasting me and others saying Anaheim PD was a quality police force and you placed all the blame on the residents. Well here you go chump. Proof you were wrong and all of us that have been saying for the last 10 years that Anaheim PD is Lazy, doesn’t investigate jack S#it, terrible response times/if any at all.
Must suck to have proof shoved in your face that you were WRONG and we were right.
Reply · Like · 13 hours ago
Paul McInerny · Top Commenter
Nancy, perhaps I am misunderstanding your response to James, but I must respectfully disagree that “Stomper was around and allowed to germinate because APD is so inept.” Stomper was “around’ because of his parents and the primary responsibility for raising a child rests with the parent(s). It is the parent(s) responsibility to provide for a home environment that promotes respect for one’s self and others. It is the parent(s) who must teach the child to follow the rules, do well in school and it is the parent(s) responsibility to participate in the life of their child.
Then, there is the responsibility of the individual. The individual must understand the concept of consequences if he/she chooses an alternate path. My guess is, Stomper knew the consequences of the life he chose, but I never knew him so it is just an assumption on my part. The Criminal Justice System can only do so much within the parameters of the law, but the ultimate responsibility for compliance with the rules of society rests with the individual. Not with Anaheim PD.
The parent(s) also must understand the consequences of failure on their part or their child’s part should they choose not to follow the rules.
The article explains some (not all) of the discrepancies between historical and current crime statistical information. The lack of cooperation between police and victim is certainly one element, but I agree – one cannot place all the blame of the community – but can place significant blame on that segment of the community that chooses to look the other way, or, in some cases actively support the degradation of the community by participating in criminal activity. The ability to solve crimes is not a one-way street. I believe any officer will tell you that in order to properly investigate and prosecute a case, they need the willing cooperation of victims and witnesses.
Reply · 8 · Like · 12 hours ago
Roy Hontz · Follow · Top Commenter
If your gang-affiliated son wasn’t *committing* a crime, why did he run like a coward?
Reply · 4 · Like · 8 hours ago
Alexandra Araiza · Follow · Top Commenter
Mrs. Huizar, YOU couldn’t have said it better…”I don’t care what Manuel did 10 minutes, before, 2 days before, 2 months before, 2 years before, or from the day he was born,” do you understand that is the problem? YOU didn’t care about your son, YOU failed to guide him in the right direction, YOU allowed him to stray, YOU allowed him to join a gang, YOU failed him as a family so he sought a different type of family. YOU DIDN’T CARE. That’s a good start to accepting you’re lack of parenting skills. Now instead of focusing on raping the city of Anaheim with this frivolous lawsuit, why don’t you try to be a better parent to your other children. Stop neglecting them and start directing them to a better life.
Reply · 8 · Like · 6 hours ago
Roy Hontz · Follow · Top Commenter
As Alexandra suggested, Mrs. Huizar, YOU are the problem. We care what your thug of a son did 2 years prior to this, as do the police. They should care. Unfortunately, YOU don’t. If you don’t have the time to spend some quality time (something you’ll need to Google) with your children, you shouldn’t be having children. It’s YOUR fault that your son didn’t know how to act properly on that fateful day. PERIOD.
Reply · 4 · Like · 6 hours ago
Christy Garcia
maybe you should’ve cared what he was doing from the day he was born he might still be here…..
Reply · 6 · Like · 6 hours ago
Genevieve Huizar · Follow · Colton High
You can say all you want right now, when all the information of police corruption you will eat your words, yes people call the cops when they need them, just like last week a father calls the huntington beach police to help with his 16 yr old son, what did they do, u guessed it they murdered him, so this must be okay with you too… I am in my country, this is my home, my point is my son was not committing a crime when he was executed, wait till this tragedy hits your home, and see how much u care, I will never take the blame, u did not know my son, judge all you want, I know there is a Judge much higher than you, and He will have the last word…
Reply · 1 · Like · 4 hours ago
Roy Hontz · Follow · Top Commenter
Your son WAS committing a crime when he decided to commit suicide-by-cop instead of manning up and facing the consequences. Committing suicide-by-cop is not an execution. What a cowardly felonious criminal you raised! You should be ashamed of yourself. You’re judging the police – the good guys – a fact you wish to deny. THAT is blatant hypocrisy! You will never take the blame because you’re in denial.
And yes, I’m sure your son faced the final Judgement and was sent away with his tail between his legs, as I’m sure will happen to you when your time comes… condemning the good guys and commending the bad guys; shame on you! You have your priorities all messed up! YOU lady, are WRONG in so many ways.
Reply · 3 · Like · Edited · 4 hours ago
Robert Robson · Top Commenter
Genevieve Huizar, you are a pathetic person making pathetic excuses for your dead gangster son. He was a criminal and was shot because he was a threat to the officers. An officer is not required to be shot at first before shooting. Your wonderful son, Stomper could have stopped and complied with the police, he would still be alive today. Blame your son and yourself for what happened.
Reply · 3 · Like · 3 hours ago
Roy Hontz · Follow · Top Commenter
Genevieve Huizar – You seem to be outnumbered here in your opinion. Maybe you’re wrong? But of course, ignorance, stubbornness, and denial will keep you from admitting it. What a shame. Please, if you can’t afford to spend some quality time with your remaining children, turn them over to Child Protection Services. You’re obviously incapable of raising children.
Reply · 1 · Like · 2 hours ago
Jimmy Webb
Ms Huizar, maybe you should of cared MORE what he was doing & he wouldn’t of grown up to be a menace of society. Your son was no saint & may not of got his due process but when you live that life style, are a known gang member & have a rap sheet to go with it – Don’t act so surprised or sad that he’s not here right now. STOP means stop, not run from the police. If he was not committing a crime & was so innocent, why did he run? I wish the city of Anaheim could charge you for the expenses that accrued from your son & your lack of parenting. You don’t deserve one penny yet alone $50 million.
Reply · Like · 28 minutes ago
Jimmy Webb
Genevieve Huizar this tragedy hit my home huh? Well I guess when I raise my kids to obey the police, they will stop & not run. Therefore preventing their untimely death. Note to myself while I’m at it. Teach kids not to be in a gang, do or sell drugs & be a low life thug. Stop believing everything your money hungry lawyer is telling you. The DA’s investigation report seemed pretty clear. You’re the only one in denial. I’m sure your own lawyer feels the same way as everybody else but it’s just another HOPEFUL payday.
Reply · Like · 18 minutes ago
Scott Cahill · Top Commenter · SEO Analyst/Radio Host at LA Kings Road Talk Radio
Alternate Headline- Increased gang crime in Anaheim overwhelming Officers Ability to fight crime.
Reply · 14 · Like · Follow Post · 14 hours ago
“.. APD numbers appear to reflect better rates of crime-solving, it’s because of a shift in reporting standards, not an increase in actual criminals pulled off the streets.”
Why stop with Anaheim? All city PDs & Sheriff Depts do this – SOP.
Since this is Mayor Tait’s defacto fan club, what do you make of his thoughts in agreement with Welter that this is more about classification than it is about actual efficacy?
I’d say that seems to have been his quick kneejerk reaction rather than thought-out spin. Remember he was blindsided by this report just like all the rest of us who aren’t in the APD. The whole point of this story is that the cops were hiding this from the Council, which includes the Mayor.
He remains the only councilmember pushing for civilian oversight. (Unless that’s gonna be a rare unbroken Kring promise.)
Besides which, me and Cynthia are freer, as bloggers, to be aggressively critical of the police than a Mayor is – in public at least.
Yep, that was my take on it, the poor Mayor was blindsided. The Register article makes it clear that APD has not been reporting these results to leadership, including City Council. Imagine your reaction to hearing this for the first time, from a reporter you are unfamiliar with (he just started there in November) and given the animosity right now you do not want to be misquoted or your words taken out of context, so you would be extra careful until you sit down with the Chief and get the facts for yourself. Not a problem, I do not think Tait was covering, just reacting to the situation as a whole. The reaction I want is Pringle’s, in addition to his robocall making him now look especially jerk-like, it was under HIS watch that the decline took place. He has even more answering to do than before.
I find little sympathy for the mayor and city council. If they spent less time playing footsies with the Mouse they might know what’s going on under their noses and my bet is they do know whats going and are playing dumb.
I think you got the corporatist majority mixed up with Mr. Tait, Inge.
GSR complaining about a cult of personality! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!
Where, Bloviator?
Vern and Cynthia are fans of Tait (no secret) so I posed a question about where he stood on record by the article’s end and they responded.
Much abloviate about nothin’!
Oh, oh — and then he quotes Gustavo directly! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHA!
“Hey, I didn’t do nothin’ wrong, I just posed the question ‘what do you think of the story, you craven dupes?'” heeheeheeheehee….
At least you are more than capable of amusing yourself.
Actually the seminal piece of blogospheric Tait hagiography was by Gustavo himself: last August’s “The Unlikeliest Great Mayor in OC: Anaheim’s Tom Tait”
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2012/08/tom_tait_mayor_anaheim.php
So I’m not feeling the hostility coming from the Weekly on this particular issue.
I have mixed feelings about this. First of all. I think it’s wrong to shoot anyone in the back, and I am also tired of hearing the cops excuse ” the suspect was reaching for something” so I shot him. I know there are non-lethal methods to take someone down.
I remember someone leaving a comment when this story first broke on the OJB. He chose to remain anonymous because he lives in their neighborhood. He said Manual Diaz was a trouble maker. I don’t know all the details but I will guess he had many conversations with the APD before that fatal day.
Before reading that article I attended the emergency city council meeting at the Anaheim High School to discuss the police shooting. I listened to several testimonials from friends and his mother, painting Diaz as a model citizen. The whole meeting was emotionally charged.
Maybe they both think they right. We all have different personalities, depending on how we want to represent ourselves, but at the same time some people cannot keep up the charade for long, especially if their behavior is so conflicting.
Families and friends are known to enable the ones they love and only see the good actions they do. What parent wants to admit their child is a terror in their neighborhood?
My neighbor is raising teenage kids. The other day she told me she can’t say “no” to them. Part of being a good parent means setting boundaries and saying “no” alot. I hear this kind of talk from many moms. Its the parents job to teach their kids, not teachers or law enforcement and I think once law enforcement gets in the picture, things go down hill fast.
I know of another kid who is a walking time bomb and he is not in a gang but he will be on the cops radar soon enough. This kid is 16, has anger issues, refuses to go to school, has access to firearms, shoots guns on the weekends with his dad (mom and dad are diviorced) — its how he bonds with dad and plays hours of violent video games — forget about doing homework. His mom doesn’t reprimand him for any of his bad behavior. She claims she cannot control him. She knows full well her son needs help but doesn’t seem to take it seriously. Who will suffer in the end? Her son and anyone he ends up hurting or killing. For now his future will likely be incarceration.
This mother is setting up her kid for a life of pain. He should have been taught to be a responsible young adult years ago and now he is the high schoo’ls problem. He will probably be expelled by the end of this year, and then what? This mother has no plans and doesn’t see at that much of a problem.
I don’t know Diaz’s story. I don’t know his mom’s story, but what I do believe is that it is the parents number one responsiblity to raise their children to become responsible adults. If they cannot be home because of work, they have to make arrangements for someone to care for them. These kids cannot be expected to raise themselves. If money is the issue, then they surely can find a church group or other moms with the same problem and they can take turns caring for each others children. These kids need good role models. Parents need to know where their kids are at all times.
I don’t know anything about that neighborhood, but I am sure there is at least one church there. Why can’t someone in the church start a “big brother” group? These boys need good role models and maybe this will help stop the violence between the APD and neighborhood teen boys.
“Responsible adults” as in “don’t shoot people in the back of the head” or like “when the police roust you just take it, smile, and apologize — repeat as needed”?
I think there is more to this story. Yes, there are bad cops…no doubt but kids can’t raise themselves. maybe if they had positive role models growing up, they wouldn’t end up getting shot or something else.
We live next door to an apartment complex that has gang residents. Mostly they keep to themselves but my husband has to walk across the street and crossover to our complex 1/2 a block down, because these boys hang out in the sidewalk/driveway and they like to say “words’ to him to see if he takes the bait. Are they asking for trouble?
Do they enjoy the chaos they create? I witnessed several initiation ass kickings in the past to see if a new member was worthy to join.
I doubt the cops are hunting victims. The cops and the gang members know each other very well. I don’t know if Diaz was a gang member…some say yes…some say no.
As for the APD covering up and/or changing stats…all of the police departments do it…its about keeping tax dollars flowing their way. I know it still doesn’t make it right but its up to citizens to shake things up.
Yes. This. May sound bad because you feel you don’t have too but doing this will make you never have an issue with the a police in your life. Ever. I think this is a smart way to live. My parents taught me this and I’ve never had a problem with a cop. Ever. Live and learn. Run from the cops and reach for your waistband and turn quickly toward them or any of the above, odds are you won’t live long. Fact.
What an easy promise to make to the African-Americans, Latinos, poor, youth, and others in our society– and how totally baseless. Of course “reached for the waistband” and “turned quickly towards them” are the sorts of things that can be imagined before a shooting or falsely asserted after a shooting by a cop, which is why people run from them.
Can you point to some authority that says that running from a cop is illegal? Sure, if the cop sees you coming out of a bank with a gun as the alarm blares, or if the cop sees you stabbing someone in the street, then you’re a fleeing felon. Otherwise? What’s your claim here?
148 PC. If they have reasonable suspicion or probable cause to detain you, then you can’t run. Just like Diaz. They had the PC and he ran. He reached. He turned. He died. He knew what he was doing. If he didn’t run, didn’t reach, didn’t turn, he would be alive today. Simple.
Follow me down to the bottom for my reply, Nick.
I’ll stick with the first part of the headline:
THE REGISTER BLOWS…….
No but seriously, apart from their paywall, and apart from their new owner not being familiar with the phrase “afflict the comfortable,” they are about twenty times better than they were a year ago.
Can’t the “solved” stats be adjusted upward by simply lowering the standards for what prompts an arrest, or lowering the standards for deciding that this dead suspect is the culprit? Yes, they really have some unskilled statisticians…
“The dementors of Anaheim politics are acquiring the habit of waving the oversight commission proposal like a bloody shirt anytime there is crime news in Anaheim,”
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_BKj3T8nmDUerbfwqgnBtDs3IW_PK3QSmQbqTEoHMRpNirk-g
OCR Article On Crime-Clearance Informative, But Hardly An Indictment
http://anaheimblog.net/2013/04/09/ocr-article-on-crime-clearance-informative-but-hardly-an-indictment/#more-1546
TO NICK (FROM ABOVE):
Penal Code 148, you say?
I should have specified “that it is a felony” rather than just that it’s “illegal.” Do you think that, absent someone committing a felony (and as I recall from looooong ago, in Tennessee v. Garner I think it has to be a violent felony, right?), the cops had the right to shoot Diaz at all, let alone shooting him in the back of the head once he was down?
Nick, if you don’t get that people doubt and dispute, with good reason, the assertion of cops in such situations that the fleeing misdemeanant “reached” and “turned,” you can contribute little to such a discussion other than the readily refuted proposition that “cops never lie.”
Diaz was well on his way to getting away. He would have known that the cops could legally shoot him if, and only if, he threatened them with violence. Why would he “reach for his waistband”? (Please don’t say “suicide by cop.”) Why, in the process of such an escape, would he even turn? Is it more likely that the cops saw a god-damned gang member who was outrunning him and one of them decided to go vigilante on him, knowing that you and other officers (and the DA and the courts etc.) would be highly unlikely to second-guess him in the absence of clear video evidence?
As I remember the case, it’s not even clear that he was in the process of being arrested (or that they did have probable cause beyond his being a known or suspected gang member talking to people in a car who didn’t want to deal with the cops — who may well have been known to roust people like him.)
While there is a Blue Wall of Silence, people in such situations are going to decide to shoot cops rather than be shot by them. I don’t want that to happen — partially due to the terrible effect on cops who just want to do their jobs the right way, partially due to the effect of consequent repression on the community, partially due to the effect on the entire county’s and region’s economy and culture. Making the poor areas of Anaheim into armed camps is flat-out unacceptable.
You lost all credibility when you said shooting him in the back of the head when he was down. Wrong. Not even close to the truth. You are listening to the Diaz mama and their people that lie to make things sound good. He was shot in the head as he turned. Get it right. I won’t even address the rest because you are very lost. Felony? No, it can be fleeing a misdemeanor as well. Resisting any crime is a violation of 148. But you saying he was shot while down int he back of the head shows where your mind is at and the bias you have.
I’m going by the word of witnesses and by my recollection (now over 8 months old) of video. That seems pretty responsible to me. On what are you basing your information?
I don’t recall whether the mother has a wrongful death claim, but a courtroom (more so that a DA’s office or even the Sheriff-Coroner) would be where I’d expect to get a definitive answer.
I was going to give you a Wikipedia cite to Tennessee v. Garner, but when I searched I found a link that seemed likely to be (1) more thorough in linking to a discussion of this shooting and (2) more infuriating to you. Enjoy! http://www.copblock.org/19331/tennessee-v-garner/
Here’s the money cite from Justice White’s opinion:
.
To my knowledge, this is still good law. Do you know otherwise?
Yes that law is still great. Used often. You are just mixing up the story to make it look worse.
The cops had PC to contact and detain him. Known gang member, in a gang dope area, and doing what appears to be a hand to hand dope transaction. Sees the cops and runs. Cops chase him. Foot pursuit is on.
The cops can’t use deadly force to stop his flight unless they need to prevent injury or death to themselves or others. They don’t use deadly force for either of those to prevent further flight.
They corner him. He reaches into his waistband and pulls out his hand as if it’s a gun. Cops have a split second to react and they blow him away instead of dying themselves. Justified. Bad guy made that choice and only he knows why. Suicide by cop? Who knows. But he knew what he was doing and he knew what was going to happen.
Justified. Would happen again today if he or anyone else does the same thing anywhere in the USA.
The question of their having probable cause is interesting — depending as it does on how one’s views of policing itself in the area determines whether he’d have reason to run even if he’d simply been talking innocently to friends parked on the street on which he resides — but let’s set that aside. Let’s assume probable cause for a non-violent felony. You bring up something far more interesting.
“They corner him”?
Is that what you think happened? Because that’s not what I understand to have happened. Where did you get this information?
I’ll agree with you, right from the start, that if the police are chasing you, corner you, and with your back to the wall you actually make motions to indicate that you are going to shoot them (even if you’re bluffing), they’re going to be found legally justified in shooting you, whether or not they’re morally justified. But why would you think that that’s what happened here?
Do you think that Manuel Diaz was really so afraid of going to jail that he’d “commit suicide by cop”? Why? He had plenty of friends in jail; he’d have an easier time there than most would; he was likely to get out early given overcrowding, if he was even convicted in the first place. You think that maybe he just didn’t want to face having disappointed his family?
Maybe he shoots back, out of concentrated essence of dumb, if he’s armed — but if he’s not armed he’d probably try to get as close to witnesses as he could and then take the ensuing beating. A bad break, sure, but just part of the cost of his business. And he’d probably be out — if they had only evidence enough for resisting arrest — in six months or so, right? He had no apparent reason to decide to fake an attack on the cops and thus end it all.
So, again, I wonder where you get this notion. I hope that you don’t just toss it out there automatically, as standard procedure.
My sense at the time was that he’d probably clambered over an easily scaled (not by me, but by him) cyclone fence and was well on his way to getting away — when he was shot in the butt and fell down, leaving him vulnerable to a second (fatal) head shot. Anyone else out here remember that? Has there been evidence presenting of his being “cornered”? Is there a re-enactment of his path?
I don’t know, Nick — what’s more likely? That this guy just decided to end it all despite being close to getting away, or that some cop decided that he was tired of people like Stomper getting away from the likes of him by doing things like clambering over chain-link fences into an area where the cops might well decide not to pursue him out of fear for their own lives — and decided that the world would be better (and in his case involve fewer such chases) if he just brought the guy down by shooting him in the ass? After all, he’d always be able to claim that he turned, or reached for his waistband, and most (or all?) of his colleagues, whether they had any knowledge of what happened or not, would quickly fall into line!
Can you “paint us a word picture,” as they say on NPR, of how Diaz got from the car to the place where he died, and how and where “they cornered him”?
If you research the case and look at the drawings and sky views of the area, you will see that he turned the corner and ended up against a wrought iron fence. He hit the fence and then when the cop turned the corner, Diaz reached and turned toward the cop as if he was pulling a gun and shooting the cop. Now this is all per the cop that shot and that was the only actual witness to the actual shooting event. But that is also all we have to go by. Video confirms the statements made, although grainy and not of the actual shooting and movements. It is very odd that he ran in that direction though because he was so familiar with the area but he must have forget once he turned that corner, he forgot where he was and had no option but to turn around and do what he did.
It was wrought iron fencing and there was no way for him to scale it or climb over it and that part never happened. He shot to the butt was when he turned as the shooting was happening. Back or butt shots aren’t always bad and some are usually exit wounds as well. Just ask the coroner.
I find that hard to reconcile with my memory of the video showing him next to what appeared to be a scalable fence, through which he could be clearly seen (enough so that cops had to stand in front of the people taking video.) I admit that I haven’t seen the video in six months or so. Sure, I’ll take a look at drawings and sky views if you’ll let me know where to find them.
I tend to doubt the “chose suicide by cop” scenario for the reasons that I’ve already expressed. Once cornered, if cornered, he was simply going to jail (at worst.) “Hardened gang member,” maybe going to jail for resisting arrest? Well, then — so what?
Roy hontz is a typical Costa Mesa pos