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The criticism leveled at Kris Murray for her anti-Trump resolution last week does not adequately recognize the extraordinarily hateful rhetoric of the candidate, since if he’s elected this rhetoric will become, to a degree, what America stands for.
His words can’t be dismissed as just words, especially when he has
attracted a substantial following and he is in the verge of becoming the GOP nominee. The weigh of his words are not the same as somebody calling others pendejo. Even one of the Koch brothers calls Trump’s Muslim registry plan ‘reminiscent of Nazi Germany’. Hitler started with speeches, words.
As much as Trump portrays his campaign as “anti status quo/anti-establishment”, his demagoguery comes across crushing on issues such as opposing minimum wage increases or union organizing, like in his Vegas hotel.
His campaign, as Larry Wilmore sarcastically said it, is inspiring …mass violence… The near-riot occurrences during his campaign appearances in California are a response to his hateful and racist tone. I’m not condoning any violence in any event, political or not. The Mexican-related youth that participated in those acts of violence should rethink how to react to the prospect of having their parents deported, their families broken apart, of being called rapists and criminals.
Taxpayer’s monies should not have to be wasted in theses melees, raucous events paying for the police, horses, police cars destroyed, for keeping the peace among opposing groups. After all, democracy is only through the ballot box, speaking at the council meetings …demonstrations, no, not even if the KKK clowns come to town, or if the Trumpistas are promising to deport at least eleven millions of people. I don’t mean this. Democracy is not an austere, lifeless, a perfect orderly arrangement. It is a dynamic system, we have conflicts, we address them and move forward, and the costs associated are worthwhile. Better than living in a police state.
It is an irony that Murray, the councilperson most linked to the policies that have perpetuated the status against our poor communities, (as Cynthia points out in her recent post) was the one to propose the resolution against Trump. We were presented with an opportunity to make a profound statement against bigotry and racism, but we failed.
It is interesting the positions that Murray, and her closest ally Jordan Brandman, have taken on non-purely economic issues. Their previous resolution on the Syrian refugees, their active support for the homeless center, and now the anti-Trump resolution, soften their image and raise the urgency of these issues. There are some merits to acknowledge. I doubt that they will ever acknowledge their failures as economic stewards of our city, but you never know. Pringle and Disney may no longer need them as they have already accomplished their missions.
A similar resolution to Murray’s had already been rejected in Portland, Oregon in 2015. It sounds like departing city attorney Michael Houston gave her incorrect advise. As in Portland, a modified resolution without naming Trump could have been presented and supported by the council.
The main problem is not that she was pandering, but that using public resources to single out a candidate for support or attack like this breaks the law. Why Mike Houston let it go through in its initial form is a mystery to me.
They do these things because they can.
As to Murray I sincerely doubt she though she was doing anything bold or courageous. And I think it was plain old pandering, and maybe a little favor for the Cruz campaign courtesy of her boss.
And then all the wheels came off.
Be that as it may, I think that Ricardo’s point that we really do need public condemnations of Trump’s activation of thugs to come from prominent Republicans — and I expect that everyone on the Anaheim Council except possibly for Kring would agree with that.
But they should be done lawfully. I think that at least two people on the Anaheim Council — the usual non-suspects — would agree with that.
Heh heh. Kring. Racism.
Have I told that story yet? Not on the blog I think.
Maybe I shouldn’t, she has made the right vote a couple times lately…
Okay okay if you insist.
Some black guy came by asking for change, and after he left she said “What’d he need, bus fare back to Africa?”
Backup available if demanded.
Do you think Kringle knows we are separated from Africa by a big ocean?
In her defense, there’s a fair chance that when she said that she was completely soused.
Who’s worse, the bigot or the one who condemns bigotry for political gain?
That’s not a distinction I care to make. I respectfully disagree with Ricardo that Murray was courageous. I think she believed she was getting a freebie, without bothering to worry about the bitter irony of her own previous record, minority voting-wise. Introspection is not a hallmark of the kleptocracy. The dollar sign is.
David, I appreciate your disagreement. As you said, the klepto council members can afford to take positions that marginally affect them and their patrons. However, in this situation I took her stance, whether genuine or not, at face value.
“I took her stance, whether genuine or not, at face value.”
So did I. And the face belonged to Benjamin Franklin!
I’ll bet Murray (inwardly) thanks you for headlining her next campaign flyer, Ricardo. As more and more “adults leave the room” in local, SoCal, and National politics, the strategic use of silence has left with them.
If her next campaign is against a Trump’s influenced candidate, she is welcome to use it.
BBRW, the adults need to stay in the room. The silence of this adult is telling:
” First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out – because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me – and there was no one left to speak out for me. “
Think Kris Murray would sponsor a resolution condemning Curt Pringle for posting poll guards?
I mean, she wants to be a voice for all of Anaheim, right?
JAJAJA
Or how about condemning blog posts that insult the Latino community?
But seriously Ricardo, why this issue when there have been SO MANY LOCAL issues with much greater impact?
Ryan, it wasn’t an easy post to write. The fear and uncertainty that this man has created among Latinos and Muslims friends are real.
I think that Mandela said something along the lines that ” when you’re drowning, you don’t care about the color of the hand reaching out to you”. The irony is that Murray may have listened to you, that she is destroying the local GOP, and she may end up saving it.
I ignore the blog that insults the Latino community. The Teddy Bear will live forever in our memory.
Bear in mind . . . she could have been effective had she not wasted taxpayer dollars with her rant.
From the dias? Sure. Great. Op-ed in the paper, beautiful. Press conference on the steps of city hall? Outstanding. In fact, I’d have been the first one in line to spit polish her shoes.
But, it wasn’t about actually affecting change. It never was. It was about getting on TV and running for Mayor.
I think it was a fine contribution to the discussion and that you’re the best one positioned here to write it. I disagree with your perception of her honest belief — and I reiterate, with Ryan, that the big question was legality rather than pandering — but it is damn right that Latinos have a valid need to hear these sorts of condemnations. (The rest of us should need to hear them too.)
I just give you many more “took a bold stand” points than I do her. She also claimed — disingenuously — that “this wasn’t political.”
I think that her leaving condemnation of Ted Cruz — whose positions are barely distinguishable from Trump’s — out of her initial resolution speaks loudly to where she was coming from.
Cracks me up that when a leader with a fiduciary obligation to protect the public treasure wants to keep indigent foreigners from pouring over the border that US taxpayers are forced to support – he’s termed a ‘racist’.
It’s amazing how people spin and distort various topics.
Btw, just so everyone is fully aware – Muslim is not a race. And until we are able to fix the problem of foreign terrorists gaming the system in order to enter the country and murder 3000 innocent US citizens – Trump has a point. We have to be very careful who we allow into the country.
This is all pretty much common sense. But political correctness gone wild has consumed a certain portion of the nation and resulted in idiocy that is foreign to the rest of the global community.
The rational world laughs at us. Seriously. I’ve spoken to many foreigners who say back home their people tell American jokes all the time.
Trump is absolutely spot on. Our leaders are incredibly stupid.
It cracks me up when a racist gets called a racist, then some dude makes up reasons why that person isn’t actually a racist, then calls people stupid.
Wait. That’s not funny.
Oh stop twisting the argument like you commonly do. Intelligent people see right through it.
You fail to actually address the points that I made. Instead you give a cursory emotionally charged sentence or two that completely avoids my position.
You don’t fool me. Others might not say it but I suspect they see it for what it is too.
Z, you don’t have a position.
Really. Truely. No position.
“Intelligent people see right through it.”
I call bullshit.
What would you know about “intelligent people”?
Fiction:
” …when a leader with a fiduciary obligation to protect the public treasure wants to keep indigent foreigners from pouring over the border that US taxpayers are forced to support – he’s termed a ‘racist’.”
Reality:
“From 2009 to 2014, 1 million Mexicans and their families (including U.S.-born children) left the U.S. for Mexico, according to data from the 2014 Mexican National Survey of Demographic Dynamics (ENADID). U.S. census data for the same period show an estimated 870,000 Mexican nationals left Mexico to come to the U.S., a smaller number than the flow of families from the U.S. to Mexico.”
panic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/
Don’t make me vomit.
Illegal indigents are pouring over the border in record numbers. The border patrol ackowledges it and says their hands are tied by Obama. And US taxpayers are forced to pay for them.
This is all common knowledge. Do you want your country flooded with foreign indigents? How will that make your life better?
Your little newclips are so ridiculous. panic. org??? 🙂
Just curious. Are you a US citizen?
From the Pew Research Center:
Here’s what we know about illegal immigration to the U.S. from Mexico:
1. The number of Mexican immigrants living in the U.S. illegally has declined. In 2014, 5.6 million unauthorized immigrants from Mexico lived in the U.S., down by about 1 million since 2007.
2. Border Apprehensions in 2014 More non-Mexicans than Mexicans were apprehended at U.S. borders in 2014, the first time on record this has happened.
3. Even as border apprehensions dropped, deportations of Mexican immigrants reached a record high in 2013 of 314,904, up from 169,031 in 2005.
4. Mexican unauthorized immigrants are more likely than unauthorized immigrants overall to work in the construction industry and less likely to work in services.
5. Unauthorized immigrants from Mexico make up at least 75% of the total unauthorized immigrant population in 10 states: New Mexico (89%), Arizona (84%), Idaho (83%), Wyoming (82%), Colorado (78%), Oklahoma (76%), Wisconsin (76%), Kansas (75%), Oregon (75%) and Texas (75%). Among these states, half saw a decline in the unauthorized immigrant population from 2009 to 2012.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/what-we-know-about-illegal-immigration-from-mexico/
I must of cut off the first part of the website, it’s NOT ” panic. org??? ”
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/
But you, Z have a lot of nerve pointing fingers at anyone, when we’ve caught you in so many lies. You’re the one with overtly partisan, full O’bullshit websites.
Remind me, when was Hillary Secretary of State? Oh yeah, you scurried away from that turd like a little rat.
AND HEY, YOU JUST EXPOSED YOURSELF AS A MAJOR RACIST ASSHOLE BY ASKING IF I’M A U.S. CITIZEN, GO FUCK YOURSELF JERK.
Wow. Anonster seems to be losing it.
Is that ballistic hyperbole vulgarity allowed at the Orange Juice Blog?
Let’s show some class and clean up the filth, eh?
Hillary was SOS when Obama illegally attacked Syria – without the authorization of the UN Security Council and in violation of the War Powers Act of 1973.
When Obama illegally attacked Libya (Hillary was the SOS) and opened the door for a soverign leader to get executed – it destabilized Libya, we got Benghazi and a nation full of radical Islamic jihadists. Then the Nobel Peace Prize awardee pulled the same stunt in Syria! 🙂
Caution all you former anti-war activists: Hillary is a war monger.
Caution all you former OWS activists: Hillary is deep in the pockets of Wall Street.
Don’t flip-flop on us and suddenly turn pro-foreign wars and pro-Wall Street by supporting Hillary Clinton!
You earned every expletive and more you racist jerk. Where do you get off questioning anyone’s citizenship?
I caught you in a lie and instead of admitting it and correcting yourself, you just keep slinging crap hoping no one will notice.
Oh and here’s what your boy dumpf, the big peacenik, wanted to do about Libya:
“I can’t believe what our country is doing. Qaddafi in Libya is killing thousands of people, nobody knows how bad it is, and we’re sitting around, we have soldiers all [around] the Middle East, and we’re not bringing them in to stop this horrible carnage and that’s what it is: It’s a carnage.
You talk about things that have happened in history; this could be one of the worst. Now we should go in, we should stop this guy, which would be very easy and very quick. We could do it surgically, stop him from doing it, and save these lives. This is absolutely nuts. We don’t want to get involved and you’re gonna end up with something like you’ve never seen before. . . .
We should do on a humanitarian basis, immediately go into Libya, knock this guy out very quickly, very surgically, very effectively, and save the lives.”(2011)
Here’s some REAL information for you from a trusted source:
“The number of families and unaccompanied children apprehended on the southern border has skyrocketed this year, according to new figures from the Obama administration.”
http://thehill.com/latino/278785-migrant-numbers-skyrocket-at-mexican-border
Read slowly and comprehend.
You understand that doesn’t refute what anonster cited?
Right?
It makes no sense. Why would they go back to a life of certain poverty when they can get free stuff here in America?
All those minors and their families get free food, free shelter, free medical care, free education, etc….
Do you understand that US taxdollars pay for it?
No other nation on earth is that insane.
Trump gets it. Some of you don’t.
What doesn’t make sense is your worldview.
Which is, by and large, why you accept the crazy shit that fits into it and reject the normal stuff that doesn’t.
More unresponsive gobbledegook.
. . . because it doesn’t fit in your worldview.
Exponentially.
What part of “apprehended” don’t you understand?
These children and families are really refugees and we need to deal with them like the humanitarian crisis that it is and not like a bunch of racist, xenophobes.
So why don’t we just send cargo ships to all 4 corners of the earth and transport all the world’s poor people back to America so we can save them?
Are you all-in on that idea, anonster? 🙂
We’re not even in the top 10 of countries that take in refugees.
http://247wallst.com/special-report/2015/09/21/10-countries-sheltering-the-most-refugees/2/
You are such a scaredy cat. I thought we were the world’s richest, biggest military, smartest country in the world.
But you’re afraid of some women and children walking across the border?
Quick pull down the blinds! What was that noise ?
“The Emergency Refugee and Migration Assistance (ERMA) account is funded at a ceiling of $100 million, to be drawn upon by the President to meet unexpected urgent overseas refugee and migration needs whenever the President determines that it is important to the national interest to do so. This fund is also administered with the Bureau of Population, Refugees and Migration of the U.S. Department of State. RCUSA continues to advocate for the ceiling to be raised in reflection of the costs of today’s urgent refugee needs.”
http://www.rcusa.org/u-s-funding-for-refugees-and-idps
It never ceases to amaze me how juvenile your arguments are.
The US is not the only country to have refugees and refugees are not a new phenomena.
We are quite capable of absorbing and helping these people. There isn’t any reason for the hysteria and feverish hatred you and your fellow dumpf supporters are whipping yourselves into.
Get a grip, racist jerk.
You debate like an 11 year old girl going through puberty. 🙂
Rarely do you respond to the question asked. The reason, of course, is because you have no intelligent answer. IOWs – you’re stumped.
Then you get emotional and spew vitriol to cover for your intellectual shallowness.
I read you like a book.
By the way, unless someone is outing someone else, I don’t think that an argument between two anonymous commenters can easily (if at all) constitute defamation. So far as I’m concerned, while you hold certain rights (not on this blog except by grace, but in the public arena) to free speech when you write anonymously, you’re not actually rights-holding people when it comes to defamation. If I say that Ziegfried or anonymous eats kitty litter, who exactly is being defamed?
Trumpfried, we all see through your thin veneer.
You, like your hero, are a racist, xenophobic, liar. The world is changing, and leaving you behind, which makes you very scared. You are not alone, we see many like you at the Trump rallies, but thankfully your kind are a minority.
Your hateful rhetoric is a temporary salve to what has rubbed you raw and left you feeling so vulnerable. It’s not the immigrants that have threatened your way of life, it’s the rich elites like your hero that have rigged the game in their favor. You will never be one of them.You’ve been played for the fool that you are.
Look….another drama queen! 🙂
Sure, we could absorb the refugees and help them. The problem is that they tend to not assimilate and rather than having a “melting pot” – we end up up with these people stewing in their own pot.
“You debate like an 11 year old girl going through puberty .”
Says the emoji queen.
✂ .
(That’s 11 year old emoji speak, for: I just cut your balls off and fed them to the dog (figuratively, of course )) Oh yeah, smack.
“Then you get emotional and spew vitriol to cover for your intellectual shallowness.”
How was asking if I’m a US citizen pertinent to your argument?
That’s an extremely offensive question and I really would like to see you try and defend it.
Aww, did my emoji’s not get through?
I guess I don’t have the 11 year old girl touch : (.
I see the Bobbit scissors.
…….another drama queen!
You’re projecting again. (No emoji)
I kinda feel like we are arguing with Pee Wee Herman.(No emoji)
The potty-mouthed Trump-haters can sure dish it out with classless pejoratives and concocted claims directed at those with opinions contrary to your own. But if the opinions are reversed they turn into sensitive little whining sissies.
No wonder Trump is kicking ass and taking names. 17 down, 1 to go.
Hey, where are all the former liberal anti-war protesters and OWS activists? Why no nasty vitriolic blogs on Hillary? Not enough material?
🙂
It’s like these morons have blood dripping from, I dunno, yuge places.
“The potty-mouthed Trump-haters can sure dish it out with classless pejoratives and concocted claims directed at those with opinions contrary to your own. But if the opinions are reversed they turn into sensitive little whining sissies”
“concocted claims”???!!!
You mean like determining you’re a racist jerk based on your questioning wether or not I’m a US citizen because I disagree with you on immigration?
Why don’t you explain your motivation in asking that question and how the answer would affect the argument?
In other words, prove you’re not a racist jerk.
You’re really pushing the envelope, anonster.
That doesn’t mean that more people are crossing the border without authorization. It can simply mean that, while the same (or fewer) numbers of people are crossing, enforcement of the law has improved. That, of course, would run completely contrary to your statements about Obama.
“Is that ballistic hyperbole vulgarity allowed at the Orange Juice Blog?” I’m pretty sure that should read, “ballistic hyperbolic vulgarity.” If you can’t be bothered to check your facts, at least check your grammar.
Clearly Z has not been reading our stuff for very long. Sorry, buddy, around here not only is ballistic hyperbolic vulgarity allowed, but at OJB we raise it to an art form and give each other (imaginary) awards for it.
Ricardo, dearest friend, I have to disagree with you. What Murray did was not bravery. Bravery is calling a press conference without the benefit of a bullet-proof Council dais to hide behind. Courage is using your own campaign resources, or God forbid your own personal funds, to produce a website condemning Trump and his hate-filled, egotistical beast of a split personality. Murray used PUBLIC FUNDS for staff to produce a POLITICAL hit piece that called out a candidate by name, and the office he seeks, and then posted it on the City of Anaheim website at no cost to herself. It is not brave to take action that costs you NOTHING.
Courage requires one to face certain negative consequences, but doing it anyway in the name of doing what is right. What did Murray face in her grandstanding? A few hours of angry comments at a microphone? Around here that is called “another Council Tuesday” and she has faced angry crowds in order to funnel tax money to her friends on numerous occasions. She spent our money on something she should have funded on her own, she spent our money for emergency services to protect her inside the building, while others were hurt out front. She spent our money for POLITICAL SPEECH, which is not mandatory to listen to. I don’t like Trump, and I refuse to listen to anything he has to say, I change the channel and turn to something positive. You have the same choice. Trump’s words are ugly, but they are WORDS. There is no such thing as a Constitutional right to not be offended! He has the right to say it we have the right to not listen to it, and maybe go support the guy who is NOT saying it. It is those people who cannot manage their own emotions at hearing the trigger of angry words who then seek to control the words of others. If his words become policy in a Presidency from Hell, then we can talk (most are illegal and stopping him is a matter of law.)
If anything, what Murray wants is BACKWARD from what is needed to protect the nation. If we remove “hateful rhetoric” from campaigns, where we are getting to know the real candidate before selecting them for office, we remove the only clues we have to knowing a candidate is a racist pig, PRIOR TO their obtaining a position where that hateful rhetoric becomes policy. I would rather see that vulgarity up front, where it identifies and labels the candidate for the votes to see, before the box is marked next to someone’s name on a ballot. Wouldn’t you?
Murray is brash, irresponsible, unthinking, unrealistic, thin-skinned, and immature, but she is NOT brave nor courageous. You, on the other hand, and both brave AND courageous, and I pray you keep fighting the good fight, sir.
Dear Cynthia, I respect and value our disagreements. I hope that my assessment of Trump’s rhetoric is unfounded. He is entitled to say crazy things and for us to tune him out or not. The degree of his hyper hateful rhetoric is frightening, even more when he has become the de facto leader of a major political party.
It is in this context that I evaluated Murray’s stand. I doubt how genuine she is in this issue. As you described it, it appears that she again abused the privileges of her office, by not following the protocol for this kind of resolution. Right or wrong procedurally, genuinely or not, she took an unusual stand.
If Murray really wants to get rid of “hateful rhetoric” she would shut down the toxic kleptoblog, funded with taxpayer money, laundered by the Anaheim Chamber of Commerce, courtesy of her church mate
The level of contemptible hypocrisy is almost breathtaking.
She certainly wouldn’t write exclusive op-eds for it.
“A few hours of angry comments at a microphone? Around here that is called “another Council Tuesday”…”
Yes it is, and an essential feature of “another Council Tuesday” is Kris sitting there looking like a woeful, stoic, doe-eyed Raggedy Ann doll while all the meanies pick on her.
The Rorschach here though is racial … I also showed up to call this resolution improper, while meanwhile dozens of my latino and Muslim friends showed up to rail against Trump supporters. I tried to tell them they were missing the point and not helping their case; for my efforts I got called a “Trump supporter” by some dude in a Guy Fawkes mask. I’m guessing this shit seems EXISTENTIALLY THREATENING to folks of other races, in a way that me and Cynthia just don’t feel.
So carry on everybody…
“I’m guessing this shit seems EXISTENTIALLY THREATENING to folks of other races, in a way that me and Cynthia just don’t feel.”
I get the strong feeling that 98% of the people who showed up didn’t have a clue about the Anaheim subtext and just wanted to scream at somebody. Does anybody really feel existentially threatened? I doubt it.
Those of us who are aware of the kleptocrisy get it in a whole other way.
Ballistic hyperbole vularity may be allowed – but its terribly uncivil and doesn’t promote productive board discussions on matters political. So while you may claim that the rules allow for it – it’s still uncivilized and crude any way to cut it.
I always thought the liberals preached ‘tolerance’ for differences? That hasn’t been my experience on this discussion board. I offer a different opinion and the caustic vitriol come flying.
You say Trump’s words are ugly???
And then from the other side of your mouth you say “Sorry, buddy, around here not only is ballistic hyperbolic vulgarity allowed, but at OJB we raise it to an art form and give each other (imaginary) awards for it.”
Comical.
Uncivil? Uncivil is questioning someone’s citizenship just because you don’t like their argument.
It occurs to me that you may not be aware of how offensive and what a race-baiting question it was. I guess in that case your just a stupid, racist jerk.
In case you hadn’t noticed, none of us are running for the Presidency of the Freaking United States of Freaking America.
Is it your contention Presidential candidates should act and talk like the darker sides of the American electorate?
Oh, I get it. Don’t do as we do – do as we say. Trump-haters.
Really disgusting.
No, you don’t get it. You don’t get it at all.
It’s don’t be a racist xenophobic egotistical predator.
Pretty simple actually.
It’s not even necessarily about Trump. It could be anybody that wants to be President of the Freaking United States of Freaking America.
So, no, you really don’t get it.
Yes. Trump’s words are ugly. His policies are ugly. His whole appeal is about being as ugly as possible.
Not only are his words ugly, they can just be plain ol’ stupid:
From Fox News:
BAIER: Campaigning in Iowa, you said, quote, “I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me.” You obviously know a lot about leadership. But based on — on this, what — what’s your assessment of the leader of ISIS, his strengths, weaknesses, you know…
TRUMP: Well, they’ve had numerous leaders and they don’t — you don’t even — we don’t even really know who the leader is. They have different people in different areas. What does amaze me is they have a leader and we can’t get him. He’s unbelievable. You have more than one leader of ISIS, they’re expanding and spreading and taking over the oil in Libya. Which is really pure, great oil. Among the best in the world and they’re sending it out on ships and we’re doing nothing to blockade it?
“His whole appeal is about being as ugly as possible.”
Exactly. And I also contend that Trump embodies the inevitable result of a culture and a country that places far too much value on being politically incorrect.
*We agree with Anon? No way! OK, we have Trumped Up Charges! We have vile and vulgar language. We have instigation of violence on public citizens. We have ridiculous arguments, lies, misrepresentations. We have underwear he won’t show us. We have no photo of his scat in his gold plated toilet. We have someone who inspires stupidity, lack of critical analysis and makes most politicians look like normal human beings. One guy called into C-Span today and said they were going out with their gun onto the streets if the Trumpster is not elected. Well, too bad – not nice to see that ISIS is winning their war on Christianity.
Actually, technically, you agree with me.
Don’t worry, the nausea is only temporary.
Many of the recent refugees are victims of the Central American govts., not Mexicans. A bit of research would reveal the ultimate source- a long history of US interference in those countries internal affairs. Many of the unaccompanied minors have endured passages that included assault and worse. These refugees are in my opinion much braver and more worthwhile as humans and US citizens than Sieg-heil Fred and all his rants.