And, damn! So much money has been sunk into Proposition 8, the initiative to prevent our gay brothers and sisters from enjoying the right to marry legally. This was to be a jolt of regeneration for the California Republican Party – it had worked in the past, hadn’t it? Legions of “conservative” “Christians,” grossed out at having to share the privilege of marriage with a bunch of degenerates, would flock to the polls and while they were standing there, would throw in a vote for anyone who had an “R” next to their name, as that politician would self-evidently be on the same side in this crucial, life-or-death, cultural struggle.
But… and it figures. 2008 comes along, and hardly anybody is left in California who doesn’t have a good friend who’s gay. And totally doesn’t feel threatened by it. So another rusty tool to retire from the GOP toolbox, how ever will they replace it? The latest Field Poll says
that even before Attorney General Brown introduced his more-accurate summary of the initiative, it was still failing by 42% to 37%. (thanks for the tip to my buddy Schwarzenegger Centrist Republican – the Liberal OC will find this out next week)
NOW, with the anodyne, meaningless descrpition “limit on marriage” replaced by “eliminates the right of same-sex couples to marry,” the figures avalanche to 58% against, 30% for. That’s called history, spin-your-loss zone. Americans don’t want to vote to eliminate anybody’s rights. And yet, who can say that’s not an honest description?
Other interesting tidbits, which you can make of what you wish:
“Evangelical Christians” favor the gay-bashing initiative 60% to 34%.
Protestants in general, 52% to 40%.
CATHOLICS OPPOSE it, 55%.
and those with no religion or no particular religion oppose it, 71%.
Oh, and the NO side just got a 10-grand donation from Brad Pitt, who makes some of us breeders WISH we were gay.
Bless me, Father, and forgive me for the schadenfreude I feel, for all the GOP money sunk into this hopeless hate-hole. A week or two ago my buddy Sandy sent me this link to the amazing number of contributors toward this odious proposition, which has obviously become a sort of Holy Grail to the California GOP: [UPDATE: I didn’t realize – this is contributions from one freaking day!]
Sandy, I don’t know if you subscribe to this … I have been getting this for a couple of years, and have never seen anything like the quantity of donations Yes on Prop 8 is getting. Troubling … wonder what game plan they have in store? ElectionTrack.com Update
>
> : PROTECTMARRIAGE.COM – YES ON 8, A PROJECT OF CALIFORNIA RENEWAL
>
> – Dennis Newmeyer (Intel): $1,000
> – James Paris (J. Brian Paris): $1,000
> – John Sawyer (N/a): $1,000
> – John Lattin (Fisher & Phillips): $5,000
> – Harry Redenbaugh (Belron): $1,000
> – Donna Tyler (N/a): $1,000
> – Jeffrey C. Moffat (Captive Counsel Law Grp): $1,000
> – H. Rand Tolboe (H. Rand Tolboe, Dpm): $1,000
> – Chad W. Brown (Chad W. Brown): $2,000
> – Lars B. Black (Ladwp): $1,000
> – Robert L. Olson (Select Staffing): $1,000
> – Brooke Ashjian (Witbro, Inc.): $2,000
> – Byron L. Reintjes, Dds : $2,500
> – Carol L. Robins (N/a): $1,000
> – Debra M. Goddard (N/a): $1,250
> – Stacey Ord (N/a): $1,500
> – James D. Lamb (Taiyo Pacific Partners): $2,500
> – Patsy J. Miller (N/a): $2,500
> – Leslie L. Cook (Fusd): $2,000
> – Laurine E. Jones (N/a): $1,500
> – Joyce A. Jarrard (N/a): $1,000
> – Maeva K. Wadsworth (John Muir Health): $1,000
> – Allison F. Curtis (N/a): $1,000
> – Forrest B. Bodily (Forrest Bodily Home Improvements): $1,000
> – Jeanine Blatter (N/a): $2,000
> – Gwenn H. Webb (N/a): $10,000
> – Katherine K. Bence (Alhambra Usd): $3,000
> – C. Ray Carlson (C. Ray Carlson): $6,000
> – William F. Reynolds (William F. Reynolds): $4,000
> – Tom J. Peterson (Boeing): $1,000
> – Craig Christensen (Tetra Tech, Inc.): $1,000
> – Brent A. Kenney (Boeing): $1,000
> – James Nelson (Woodcrest Ins.): $1,000
> – Keith E. Loraine (Music Of Sundrie Natures): $5,000
> – Ralph P. Stewart : $1,000
> – Ruben Fonua (Delta Airlines, Inc.): $1,450
> – Frank A. Branson (Frank A. Branson, Inc.): $2,000
> – Melanie Gilbert (N/a): $1,000
> – Jon D. Hill (Aisen,reio,brown,raysman & Steiner): $2,000
> – Christopher L. Green (Cholestech): $4,000
> – E. Brent Martin (Walters Wholesale Elec.): $1,000
> – Colin Sturt (Davis Polle & Wardwell): $1,000
> – Charles W. Sutherland (N/a): $1,000
> – Barbara J. Davis (N/a): $1,000
> – R.e. Huisken (Rph Investments, Inc.): $5,000
> – Asset Protection & Insurance Services : $1,000
> – Gina L. Jankovich (N/a): $2,000
> – Valrae Atkinson (N/a): $1,000
> – T. Larry Eddington General Contractor : $1,000
> – Mark D. Randle (M.d. Randle): $1,500
> – Cathay Circuits, Inc. : $5,000
> – China Circuit Technology Corp.,north America : $5,000
> – Arn Kratzer (Signature Corp.): $3,000
> – Lynne D. Demartini (Emx Children & Family Serv.): $1,000
> – Robert E. Spellman (Henkels & Mc Coy, Inc.): $1,000
> – Amy E. Johnson (N/a): $25,500
> – Frank W. Cook (Walgreens): $1,000
> – Brian Steen-Larsen (Apartment & Land, Co.): $1,000
> – James Bermann (N/a): $1,000
> – Wm. Gregory Osborn (Osborn Capital Mgt.): $2,500
> – Russell K. Ryan (Mm & W, Llp): $2,100
> – Tiffany L. Nearon (N/a): $1,000
> – Brian Larson (Applied Industrial Tech.): $1,000
> – Mark A. Ward (Lockheed Martin Corp.): $1,500
> – Grant Layton (Layton Dental): $1,000
> – Rachel N. Keyser (N/a): $1,000
> – Arthur W. Tuverson (General Elec.): $5,000
> – Earl E. Damitz (N/a): $10,000
> – W. Richard Smoot (Too Fat Sandwiches): $1,000
> – Goldorado Animal Hospital : $2,500
> – Christa Storey (N/a): $1,000
> – Carlos Aranda (La Dept. Of Water & Power): $1,000
> – Clark Paulsen (Caltrans): $1,200
> – Lisa Willardson (N/a): $1,000
> – Bryant R. Gold (Advanced Bionics): $5,600
> – Kay M. Little (Lakeside Usd): $1,000
> – Scott Willardson (Symetra Financial): $1,000
> – Gregory B. Konold (Schmidt Fire Protection): $1,000
> – Rebecca A. Thompson (Mira Costa Col.): $1,000
> – Russell F. Dix (Consolidated Disposal Serv.): $2,000
> – Donal R. Eslick (N/a): $1,000
> – Carolyn S. Haws (N/a): $1,000
> – Carolyn S. Haws (N/a): $1,000
> – Bobbie Wheeler (N/a): $1,000
> – James P. Little (The Lenders Grp.): $1,000
> – Christine O. Formica (N/a): $1,000
> – Bruce C. Jones (Animal Med. Center): $1,000
> – Karl N. Haws (Mundell,odlum & Haws, Llp): $5,000
> – Haley N. Guerrero (N/a): $1,000
> – Brett W. Perkins (Kaiser Permanente): $1,500
> – James E. Elkins (N/a): $1,000
> – W. Ronald Tibbitts (N/a): $1,000
> – Curtis B. Chandler (Allstate): $10,000
> – Jay D. Call (Dept. Of Homeland Security): $1,000
> – Walter L. Robinson (Cpe): $2,500
> – John D. Evans (Alvord Usd): $1,000
> – Lawrence R. Taylor (Gallina, Llp): $2,500
> – Jennifer C. Wenz (Chw Medical Foundation): $2,500
> – Ray J. Perry (Union Pacific Railroad): $1,000
> – Donna M. Huber (N/a): $1,000
> – Mike Daley (Lso, Inc.): $5,000
> – Sandy Bertha (Healthy Island): $3,000
> – Daniel Guiterrez (Harris Ranch): $1,000
> – Jamie Davenport (Official Pest Prevention): $1,000
> – Rose Adams (Self – Rose Adams): $5,000
> – Gary Underwood (San Bernardino City Usd): $1,000
> – Ryan Hathaway (Corona/norco Usd): $1,000
> – Jill Heffner (N/a): $5,000
> – Committee To Elect Ross Jones : $1,000
> – Scott Christensen (Scandia): $1,000
> – Nancy R. Andrews (N/a): $2,000
> – Antioch Cnvalescent Hospital : $5,000
> – Lone Tree Convalescent Hospital : $5,000
> – Samantha Sheppard (N/a): $2,500
> – Paul A. Stahlman (N/a): $12,000
> – John S. Dorius (Triebsch & Frampton): $2,000
> – Dawn W. Murchison (N/a): $1,800
> – Christopher J. Robinson (U.s. Navy): $3,000
> – Carol K. Dulany (Bomusd): $1,000
> – Alan Rast (News Corp.): $1,000
> – Stacey Paxman (N/a): $1,000
> – Kathy L. Harding (N/a): $1,000
> – Keith E. Hubbs (N/a): $2,500
> – Christian E. Foulger (Homefed Corp.): $1,000
> – Adam M. Wooten (Elanex, Inc.): $1,000
> – Gregory A. Needham (Boeing): $1,000
> – Justin K. Murray (Angen): $1,000
> – Kevin H. Pratt (Cornerturn, Llc): $3,000
> – The Law Offices Of Bonnie J. Knapp : $2,500
> – George M. Knapp (The Estate Plan): $2,500
> – James A. Snow, D.d.s. : $1,000
> – Jeffrey Logan (Silvertip Capital): $1,000
> – Keith R. Judd (N/a): $2,000
> – Greg Scott (Brown, Fink, Booyce & Astle, Llp): $1,000
> – Amy C. Hulbert (Amy Hulbert, Msccc-slp): $1,000
> – Jonette D. Wills (N/a): $1,000
> – Smile Quest Dental, Charles Smurthwaite D.d.s. : $1,000
> – Law Office Of Susan J. Ralston : $1,000
> – Mark A. Saunders (Deluxe Laboratories, Inc.): $1,000
> – Cecilie B. King (Leon P. King, Cpa): $1,500
> – Catherine Bearry (Eagle Electric): $5,000
> – Pamela G. Surganovich (N/a): $1,000
> – Cecil E. Wilder (N/a): $1,000
> – Mikal C. Hunsaker (Intel): $1,000
> – Kristin P. Sterri (N/a): $1,000
> – Gerald E. Ranger (N/a): $1,000
> – Lena Harmon (Woods Pest Control, Inc.): $1,000
> – Mark Stokes (Stokes Chiropractic Office Inc): $1,000
> – Annette H. Jensen (N/a): $1,500
> – Gary E. Condie (Condie & Wood, Cpas): $1,000
> – Joseph E. Rawlinson (Joseph E. Rawlinson Law Corp.): $1,000
> – Gilbert L. Torgeson (N/a): $1,000
> – Paul D. Donaldson (N/a): $1,000
> – Kristin L. Richey (N/a): $1,000
> – Danya J. Smart (N/a): $1,000
> – Buck Mckeon For Congress : $5,000
> – Richard Rogers (Le Grand Union H.s. Dist.): $1,000
> – Richard N. Warne (City Of Livingston): $1,000
> – Susan L. Overton (Weaver Union School Dist.): $1,000
> – Peter Jeppson (N/a): $2,000
> – Matthew K. Hawkins (Mc Cormick & Barstow Partnership): $2,000
> – Adam W. Hoover (Hoover Financial Consulting, Inc.): $1,000
> – Beverly Urquhart (N/a): $1,000
> – John D. Hagen (N/a): $1,000
> – P M Truck Repair, Inc. : $1,000
> – Norman E. Parker (Nationwide Ins. Co.): $1,000
> – Daniel Du Brray (Los Rios Comm. Coll.): $1,000
> – Blaine Ray Workshops : $5,000
> – Radiation Oncology Services : $1,000
> – Above The Gate Dentistry, Jeffrey L. Davidson, Dds., Inc. : $5,000
> – William S. Tryhall (Kaiser Permanente): $1,000
> – Broadwater For Council : $1,000
> – Michael J. Robinson (Talbert Medical Grp.): $1,000
> – Ethan E. Fisher (Deloitte Tax, Llp): $1,000
> – Richard Bramwell (Psr): $1,000
> – Charlene Thomson (The Walton Co.): $2,000
> – Laura Vaden (South Pasadena Usd): $1,000
> – Jonathan X. Koberstein (N/a): $1,000
> – Dee V. Jacobs (N/a): $1,000
> – Paul Northcutt (Northcutt Properties, Inc.): $1,500
> – Edward D. Hoke Company, Inc. : $4,000
> – Dirk O. Jergensen (Omnicare): $5,000
> – David Reynolds (Ucla): $1,000
> – Nathanael T. Wyne (Wells Fargo): $1,000
> – Victor C. Thompson (La Cnty Office Of Education): $1,000
> – Thomas W. Sawyer (Idaho Technology): $1,500
> – Richard Mcintire (N/a): $13,500
> – Ronald D. Nunnally (N/a): $5,000
> – Sharon Rulon (Self – Rulon D. Beesley, M.d.): $2,500
> – Laurel L. Phillips (N/a): $1,000
> – Richard G. Ross (Ross Roofing): $2,500
> – Grace G. Chubb (N/a): $2,500
> – Merliee P. Rieta (Dr. Nelson): $1,000
> – Wesley C. Hilton (Dominion Insurance): $2,500
> – Nancy W. Hartelt (N/a): $3,000
> – Walnut Creek News Service : $2,000
> – Bradley J. Kortsen (Incotec): $1,000
> – Ross E. Stratford (Diablo View Cleaning): $1,500
> – Rodney D. Moore (Cooks Collision): $1,000
> – Darin B. Iverson (Iverson Orthodontics): $1,000
> – Janice A. Wright (N/a): $1,000
> – Jared Forman (Gfbb Benefits): $1,000
> – Raoul P. Sanders (Landscape Development): $1,000
> – Lois R. Bullard (N/a): $10,000
> – Colleen D. Watkins (N/a): $5,000
> – Jeffrey Cornwell (Cornwell & Nathan, Llp): $2,000
> – John T. Holmes (John Holmes Attorney At Law): $1,000
> – John D. Christiansen (N/a): $1,000
> – Jerry L. Shanklin (N/a): $1,000
> – Brian W. Rhodes (Andrews & Rhodes, Llp): $1,000
> – Janice R. Lindow (Jafre, Inc.): $1,000
> – Monterey Sculpture Center : $2,500
> – Larry Cleveland (Larry Cleveland, Cpa): $3,000
> – Linda F. Garrett (N/a): $2,500
> – Willard G. Sundberg (Itt Industries): $1,000
> – Stacey K. Lythgoe (N/a): $1,000
> – Robert M. Tanner (Office Of General Counsel, Lds Church): $1,000
> – Charles C. Stoddard (N/a): $4,000
> – Karen Bryson (N/a): $1,000
> – Paper Boys, Inc. : $1,000
> – Colby D. Eller (Valley Oaks Ins. Agency, Inc.): $5,000
> – Steven R. Townsend (Wachovia Securities, Llc): $5,000
> – Mary E. Dam (N/a): $2,500
> – Lang Construction Company, Inc. : $1,000
> – Sandefur Schmidt (Self – Sandefur Schmidt): $1,000
> – Milo F. Ott (Mid-america Overs.): $1,000
> – Taressa A. Earl (N/a): $2,500
> – Donald L. Locke (Tombleson, Inc.): $2,500
> – Baldur H. Schindler (Bedcon Elec. Supply): $1,000
> – David C. Lauritzen (U.s. Navy): $1,000
> – Autumn K. Swensen (N/a): $1,000
> – Angela S. Jensen (N/a): $1,000
> – Lois A. Anderson (Uhs): $1,100
> – Amanda E. Beckstead (N/a): $3,000
> – Janice Lima (N/a): $1,000
> – Todd P. Clyde (Digirad Corp.): $1,000
> – Coleen Pimentel (N/a): $1,500
> – David C. Hoopes (N/a): $1,000
> – Nancy Dickson (Energi Pension Systems, Inc.): $1,000
> – Timothy E. Bean (Ss8 Networks): $1,000
> – Debra A. Nemrow (N/a): $1,000
> – Craig L. Christianson (Navair): $1,000
> – C. Michael Zundel (A.m. Castle & Co.): $3,000
> – Charles V. Finell (N/a): $1,000
> – Donald Weijland (Paper Recycling & Shredding Spec., Inc.): $2,500
> – Ruth Vrajich (Paradise Valley Care): $1,000
> – Toni P. Hulme (N/a): $2,000
> – Kenneth S. Stewart (Southern Calif. Edison): $1,000
> – Scott M. Newey (N/a): $1,000
> – Susan B. Jones (Susan B. Jones, L.c.s.w.): $1,000
> – Judith A. Thomas (Marian Medical Center): $2,500
> – Richard W. Kiholm (Richard W. Kiholm, Dds): $2,000
> – Annette S. Domm (Golden Gate Binder Prod.): $1,000
> – Harold F. Young (Brecek & Young Adv., Inc.): $2,500
> – Lavina Hahn (N/a): $1,000
> – Gary W. Loftin (Kings): $1,000
> – Roxanna Brassfield (Sheraton Hotel): $1,000
> – Pam The Thb Family Limited Partnership : $1,000
> – Monica L. Drennan (N/a): $1,000
> – Blair Bryson (Magnolia Healthcare Mngt.): $2,000
> – David Zuniga (Fibercui General Const., Inc.): $25,000
> – Tim Taylor (Franchise Tax Board): $1,000
> – Elias Mancilla (Valley Recycling Center): $6,800
> – Derek Lisk (City Of Fountain Valley): $1,000
> – Duane J. Rogers (Miles Chemical Distribution): $1,000
> – Carey D. Perkins (N/a): $1,000
> – April D. Marsh (N/a): $1,000
> – James D. Mc Manis (Mc Manis & Assoc., Inc.): $3,000
> – John C. Carruth (Lockheed Martin): $1,500
> – Garn F. Nelson (Wightman Engineering Services): $2,000
> – Rand Ollerton (Rand Ollerton, Dds): $1,000
> – Henry R. Lindsay (N/a): $5,000
> – Alisa Barlow (Barlow Williams Realty): $1,000
> – Leonce M. Arceneaux, D.d.s., Inc. : $1,000
> – Bryan Dunn (Bryan L. Dunn, D.d.s., Inc.): $1,000
> – Michael B. Foutz (Pehl, Foutz, Foutz & Teegarden, Cpas): $1,000
> – Debra R. Foutz (Pehl, Foutz, Foutz & Teegarden, Cpas): $1,000
> – Mary Tanner (N/a): $1,000
> – Hemet Family Chiropractic : $1,000
> – Robert Sorenson (Inland Eye Specialists): $1,000
> – Wayne Minor (Sterling Bmw/hemet Land Mngt., Inc.): $2,285
> – Merrill J. Brinton (Merick Pharmacy Corp.): $1,000
> – Rtj Enterprisis : $1,000
> – Jessie F. Minor (N/a): $1,000
> – Craig A. Neville (Cal-pacific Farm Mngt., Lp): $5,000
> – Sunstone Partners, Llc : $5,000
> – Jeanne A. Wright (Lsi Corp.): $3,500
> – Gary Pratt (Worley-parsons): $1,500
> – J. Robert Jibson (Calif. Dept. Of Justice): $1,000
> – Richard S. Kopf (Fremont Group Mngt., L.p.): $12,500
> – Doreen S. Kopf (N/a): $12,500
> – Arthur D. Hunter (Intel): $1,500
> – Ronald Weist (Hp): $1,000
> – Claudia P. Quist (N/a): $5,000
> – Douglas B. Quist (Nvidia): $5,000
> – Dale E. Braithwaite (Dale E. Braithwaite, Md., Inc.): $1,000
> – Michael Evans (Kofax): $1,500
> – Donald C. Anthony (United Launch Alliance): $3,000
> – Young S. Hong (Strategic Property Assoc.): $5,000
> – Donald Murray (N/a): $2,000
> – Larry W. Loveridge (R. Larry W. Loveridge): $1,000
> – Jeffrey R. Fausett (Aquatech Corp.): $2,000
> – Richard K. Hunter (Chalet Chasseur): $1,000
> – Deniece Westover (N/a): $1,000
> – Amy L. Hammon (Kaiser Permanente): $1,000
> – Heilala T. Finau (King A Construction): $1,000
>
>
> : NO ON 8, EQUALITY FOR ALL
>
> – Paul Albert (None): $30,000
> – David Black (None): $2,500
> – Ruth Tucker (None): $10,000
> – Donnie Diltz (Coldwell Banker): $5,000
> – Tamzen White (None): $5,000
> – Thomas Perrault (Glu Mobile): $5,000
> – Deanna Dickman (Same Name): $2,500
> – Diana Whaler (Same Name): $2,500
> – Sonni Zambino (Dentistale, Inc.): $2,500
> – Maryann Simpson (Rbc Weath Management): $2,000
> – Linda Netsca (Align Consulting): $2,000
> – Mark Reisbaum (Jenison Community Endowment Fund): $2,000
> – Nancy Baker (Fielding Graduate University): $1,500
> – Iris F. Harrell (Same Name): $1,000
> – Cathy Hauer (Same Name): $1,000
> – Marie Benedetto (None): $1,000
> – Edward Reynolds (Same Name): $10,000
> – Janine Guillot (Barclays Global Investors): $15,000
> – Jeff Lewy (None): $15,000
> – Leonie A. Walker (Same Name): $25,000
> – Jennifer Rainin (Rainin Group): $50,000
> – Joseph Sarret (Cedexis): $10,000
> – Susan Mchan (Opes Advisors, Inc): $5,000
> – Patricia Cain (Santa Clara University): $1,000
> – Sandra Hernandez (The San Francisco Foundation): $1,000
> – Susan G. Norby (None): $1,000
> – Terry Winogred (Stanford University): $5,000
> – Los Angeles Gay & Lesbian Services Center : $8,670
> – Christopher Reid (Air Service Corporation): $1,000
> – Michael Wright (Prudential Georgia Realty): $1,000
>
Vern,
Did I miss it somewhere…? (which I could have, geesh there are so many)
I didn’t find the Ahmanson group on there anywhere?
I thought they were donating a pile of cash to this cause, per previous discussion here.
Carl –
If money can’t buy love, it surely can’t buy hate either.
SMS
Kudos to Paul Albert!
Carl, that was a list of donors for only ONE DAY.
Carl, that was a list of donors for only ONE DAY.
Wow. I didn’t even know that, Sandy.
Yeah, Vern, I kept seeing these giant lists of donors day after day after day, until I was finally jumping out of my skin. What to do? What to do? I know!!! Sent it to Vern. Thanks for getting the info out.
I can’t find one No on 8 person to address this, will someone here help me out? Right now gays have all the same rights as hetros under the domestic partnership law. If Prop 8 doesn’t pass, the people who will loose rights will be fertility docs, religious adoption agencies, and churches. Docs will loose their licenses if they don’t invitro gays, Catholic Charities has already lost their license in Mass. for not adopting out to same sex couples, and churches will loose their tax exempt status if they don’t marry gays. What about the rights of those individuals/organizations? There are plenty of docs and agencies to provide services to gays, but I feel really sorry for the docs that will loose their right to practice because they get sued by a gay couple. I say keep things the way they are so everyone can have the right to do whatever goes with their beliefs. Any thoughts?
Mary,
You said, “Right now gays have all the same rights as hetros under the domestic partnership law.”
That is patently not true. Power of attorney is not the same as next of kin rights when it comes to dealing with health care issues, that is a fact! Cohabitation is not the same with regard to jointly owned property and survivors rights and must go through probate. Willing firearms to your partner upon death would require that all of them be re-dros’ed, taxes and fees paid, to legally comply with the law. Whereas a husband and wife it does not. There are several other areas where similar situations exist, but frankly it’s too late and I’m too tired.
Regardless of my personal opinion about a relationship, be it heterosexual or homosexual, those who chose to share their lives as permanent life partners should be afforded the same rights, equally. It should be the same for everyone. Since I don’t carry the religious baggage that others do, which I understand, I see this as a purely secular, civil issue, my feelings have nothing to do with it. Fair is fair for everyone period. Either it should be that way for everyone or no one. Either we have a secular govt. system or we have religious based system.
Good points. Thank you so much for your imput. What could be done then to protect doctors and adoption agencies who have different values? My husband isn’t a fertility doc, but I would hate to think that one could loose her/his license for not performing invitro for a same sex couple. Thanks again.
Mary,
I don’t know the answer to your question, sorry.
As I started to write a reasoned argument for that protection you seek, I am coming up short. I wrote the pro side for protection of a morally, religious, ethical, based defense of not providing service to someone and then the con side of it. The con keeps winning, based on the current make up of the 9th district court and recent history.
I think you should be able to refuse services as a professional based upon your own code of ethics, but when applied to the legal standards now in place in our courts… well, you may be right. But I don’t think based on the legal logic path I followed that Prop 8 would change that eventuality. The way case law stands right now, it would probably be actionable and may win in court.
Prop 8 does nothing to address Mary’s concerns. Local equal access ordinances across the country as well as the ever-increasing number of anti-discrimination laws on the books that disallow the use of sexual orientation as an excuse for denying goods or services are what apply in the instances she’s mentioned. Prop 8 is a separate issue and a measure that is designed to accomplish one simple thing: preventing same-sex marriage in the state of California.
Because there’s no cognizable harm in allowing California’s same-sex couples to marry, we end up with a bunch of noise about unrelated cases.
Chino and Mary, the discrimination laws have not multiplied, we’re still working on the 1967 Civil Rights Act. The law says you can’t discriminate period. No Men’s clubs that exclude women, no White clubs that exclude blacks, no business that refuse to sell based on one of the categories of discrimination.
We all know what they are, race, religion, sexual orientation, and gender – not a complicated list. Dont want to discriminate? Get out of business! What are churches doing business for anyway? They’re tax exempt but competing with taxed businesses? Now that should be illegal.
ANOTHER CORRECTION: Brad Pitt gave not 10,000 to No on 8, but 100,000. Stop screwing me up, pajaritos!
Anonyms,
Gotta tell you, you make good sense, all the time. Your 9:49 comment should also go on the Octopus of Marriage thread.
I think you should all consider the backlash that will happen once prop 8 passes. Canada, Massachusetts, Etc. are all experiencing unheard of outbreaks of disease, pedophilia, crime, etc. along with increases in divorce, children with one parent, etc. Also, did you know that once Gay Marriage passes, that means that it will be mandated in schools that they teach our children that homosexuality is NORMAL and ACCEPTABLE and that homosexual feelings should be explored and encouraged?!?! What are we doing people? Schools cannot even say the word father or mother because it is discriminatory! Are we MAD!? Marriage certificates will not say bride and groom but Party A and Party B. EDUCATE YOURSELVES! DON’T LET MAINSTREAM MEDIA BE YOUR WAY OF DECIDING. PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS AND DO NOT LET 4 JUDGES OVERTAKE THE PEOPLES VOTE. IT WILL ONLY GO DOWN HILL FROM HERE. STOP THIS OUTRAGEOUS BEHAVIOR FROM OUR GOVERNMENT. Please, visit http://www.protectmarriage.com and the Center for Disease Control and read before you vote. It is the responsible thing to do.
Thank you.
Sam, I just went to that website and didnt find any of the stuff you are claiming. So lets look at these one by one and see if we cant find something to substantiate or explain these seemingly wild claims:
“…Canada, Massachusetts, Etc. are all experiencing unheard of outbreaks of disease, pedophilia, crime, etc. along with increases in divorce, children with one parent, etc.” -I am unable to find anything that attributes these in any kind of logical, causal way to marriage of same sex couples.
“…once Gay Marriage passes, that means that it will be mandated in schools that they teach our children that homosexuality is NORMAL and ACCEPTABLE and that homosexual feelings should be explored and encouraged?!?!” I am unable to find anything that changes the curriculum in schools as a result of either Prop 8 or the marriage of same sex couples.
“Schools cannot even say the word father or mother because it is discriminatory!” -I am unable to find anywhere that it is forbidden in schools to say mother or father or that it is discriminatory to do so.
“PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS AND DO NOT LET 4 JUDGES OVERTAKE THE PEOPLES VOTE.” -Don’t you mean four conservative Republican Judges appointed by a Republican Governor?
Sam, its good to have another viewpoint on here but people will not take you seriously unless you can substantiate your claims. Apparently you didnt get the memo but we’ve wised up and no longer accept inflamatory dialog like yours.
Longboobs, none of my ex-spouses would agree with you.
Brother Vernon.You truly didn’t need to hog the entire home page posting a phone book of names while we all use the page break feature.
Let me share some facts:
Prop 8 is about preserving marriage; it’s not an attack on the gay lifestyle. It doesn’t take away any rights or benefits from gay or lesbian domestic partners. Under California law, “domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections and benefits” as married spouces (Family Code Sect 297.5) There are no exceptions to this.
Get it?
Brother Larry. I would NEVER do such a thing as hogging the page the way you say. I certainly used the page-break… did it disappear in the weeks since I wrote this? I guess I should investigate.
I wish SARAH would put numbers back on our comments, it sure would make things simpler! But your “domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections and benefits” as married spouces is belied by Carl’s comment up above… and several other comments on this thread AND the Phobius one. Phobius went on at length about exactly how marriage would be destroyed by legalized gay marriage – were you impressed by his effort? It seemed somewhat comical to me.
Prop. 8 MOST CERTAINLY takes away a lot of rights from gays who want to marry, AND I seriously fail to see how it protects straights or even how they are endangered. But I’m sure Phobius will continue to do his best to make your case for you…
Thank you Phobius.
Off to honor the Teen Challenge program in Anaheim tonight to hear testimonies from kids and adults who turned their lives around after being alcohol and drug addicts on the streets of this nation. Co-founder Don Wilkerson is the keynote speaker. Teen Challenge began 50 years ago in NYC.
“Teen Challenge is one of the oldest, largest and most successful programs of its kind in the world. Established in 1958 by David Wilkerson, Teen Challenge has grown to more than 170 centers in the United States. If you would like to know the story of how Teen Challenge started as told in the book “The Cross and the Switchblade,” later made into a movie featuring Erik Estrada and Pat Boone.
The main southern CA office of TC is located on Main Street in Santa Ana.
To see why so many donations started pouring in at once, go to http://www.mormonsfor8.com . You’ll see that the mormon church put a great deal of pressure on its membership to donate. This site tracks whether individual donors are mormon or not. Every night the site gets the day’s donations from the Secretary of State’s website, then adds them to the database there. This list shows everyone who’s donated more than $1000 at one time. (Smaller donations don’t have to be reported to the state till the end of the year.)
Currently 41% of the total amount of money for Protectmarriage.com, given in donations over $1000, is from mormon donors. If you see anyone there that you can ID as mormon, or not, email the site owners at the email address listed there.
That is very interesting, csz, and it makes sense. The flip side is, a lot of anti-8 activists are angry ex-Mormons. I think of the great Chino Blanco (who commented above) as well as a couple of guys I met at my little Schubert-Flint almost-protest. (Well OK that’s not “a lot” but it seems like a pattern…)
Larry, good to hear Wilkerson is still going strong. I wondered about him when Melodyland left the strip.
Yes, this rocks! California can finally distinguish right and wrong. Finally. We’ve been trying so hard all this time, and now…we did it! I’m so psyched. To tech children from a young age that it’s “normal” for two men to fall in love, kiss, have sex, live together, marry, etc. etc. is just downright SICKENING. I’m glad to see that Cali is thinkin’ straight. The concept of same sex marriage is not only wrong; it’s also just fruity-in-the-loops. It’s crazy! Why would we ever want something so terrible? Anywho, I’d like to say thank you to everyone who supported Prop 8 by donating their time, money, and devotion. Because of you, we can now restore marriage in the Golden State…and what a wonderful state it is! Okay, hanging up now. Over an out…