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Output from Poseidon’s billion dollar Carlsbad plant is being dumped because it’s not needed.
The Voice of San Diego says it best:
San Diego’s Oversupply of Water Reaches Absurd Level
From the article:
The San Diego County Water Authority has dumped a half billion gallons of costly drinking water into a lake near Chula Vista.
Now that drinking water has been poured into a lake, the water must be treated a second time before humans can consume it. And here’s another kick in the gut. The drinking water that’s now been dumped into the lake includes desalinated water, some of the most expensive treated water in the world. Water officials will now have to spend even more money to make the once-drinkable desalinated water drinkable once again.
Of course, OCWD assures us the we need to give Poseidon a billion dollars to put such a plant in Huntington Beach.
We have to get Poseidon advocates to answer this article directly. Is that meeting tonight? Is it in Diamond Bar? Damn, there goes my evening.
Tonight, 5:30, Fountain Valley (as always.) I’ll have to shoehorn this into my speech.
. . . nuthin. I’ve got nuthin.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, someone can make a lot of money on this swindle!
Here’s a job announcement from CalDesal, a 501(c)(6) nonprofit out of Costa Mesa, to give you an idea of how things get done here in the County on the Make:
OJB is seeking two people to apply for this position:
(1) Someone who will apply, get an interview, and win the job — while maintaining a sense of decency, ethics, and dedication to the public good that will guide their behavior while holding the position (for as long as they can).
(2) Someone who will apply and gen an interview, but not win the job — and who is willing to dress like, think like, act like, and be equipped with the weaponry of “Homey the Clown.”
Lol, I will consider it.
Is finding and hiring the new director for CAL Desal being done on Schoenbergers day off? And why are they using the Mesa Water District…a public agency , to do the business for Caldesal?
What do you expect from the likes of Shawn dewayne? These guys need Poseidon to go through so there will be water for all of their developer backed buddies projects!
Where did you find this? and can I get the link please?
Mind blown. At $2,000/acre foot, that is over $3M dumped? And San Diego is obligated to buy 15 billion gallons a year.
Yeah. They have it worse than OC does. And OC’s is only not as bad — though still horrible — because we’ve been fighting it so long and so hard.
I have often, and by often I mean once or twice, argued that the best way to beat desal in OC is to observe what happened once it came on line in SD. So, yeah.
The guy on the board who says that the most is Phil Anthony. He said it again last night. He wants to wait two years to watch Carlsbad. The dead-enders on the Board are all yeah, yeah, Phil, you’re senile.
The staff report on possibilities of how to use POS water is dragging on… but the first drama is happening. A chart showing ecpected future water demand is REALLY UPSETTING the two most hardcore pro-POS directors – Dewane and Sheldon – they think it’s WAY too low. (Staff is now saying $435,000 acre feet, POS backers want them to say $448+ as it makes it easier to argue for POS’ necessity.)
This is Jordan’s first OCWD meeting that discusses Poseidon. Jan Flory told me “be gentle with him. I am going to meet with him and explain why he should oppose it.” We need TWO directors to turn against it, to save our bacon.
Don’t go easy on him. Ol’ Jan can whinny ’til her hooves ache and it won’t make a bit of difference if Uncle Curt says otherwise.
If she can get Jordan to oppose this, I will dance naked on Harbor Blvd with a Thank You Jan Flory’s sign.
OK, for everyone’s sake I will not. But there will be an enthusiastic thank you note.
This’ll be like SQS and everyone else trying to get him to do the right thing on district map and sequence!
I guess what it took was losing his klepto majority thanks to Lucille.
he should be curbed immediately while he is till bruising from the map scandal he created.
Jordan is as much a creature of the Building Trades as of Pringle, and they want Poseidon no matter how much it screws the rest of us. Why can’t we instead fix damaged, leaking, and decaying infrastructure — and double the membership of a fully employed Laborers Union? When I asked that question at my endorsement meeting when I ran against Dukakis, the answer was literally along the lines of “Oh yeah? Well how is fixing infrastructure going to help the Carpenters?” This is a big reason that unions have don’t get the public support here they should. FIX OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, DAMMIT!
Is Flory against Poseidon?
She’s been its leading opponent on the Board. And she’s been fantastic there. Read our archives!
Is Flory against Poseidon? Yes, she is the strongest most sensible voice against it on that board, that’s why we’re friends now. She is joined by old Phil Anthony (up for re-election this year) and young Roger Yoh.
That meeting was very telling last night. It told me that the public is hugely opposed to the Poseidon idea and the directors are majority in favor of Poseidon Im assuming by way of bribes since this is a weapons grade stupid plan. I have to give a shout out to Director Yoh. Elegantly and professionally spoken with acumen since he is a PE. Its the directors with no engineering experience at all that are in favor of this project, like I said y way of bribes by campaign donations because this is seriously stupid effort trying to saddle us with 50 years of debt for water we don’t need and cannot afford.
*What? Peer Swan was there? Oh what a surprise! Hey, as Desal becomes more and more popular and necessary….then the double dipping will slow down and eventually stop to a drip! This is alot like Driverless Cars. Uber, Flytt and all those Solar Powered Turbine Cars which will require no fossil fuel at all – The future is now folks and you can poke fund (or “fun)…..where you will. It is not going to change the facts. You can certainly pick your own reasons….just not your own facts. Water shortage? Ever heard of it? When the day comes that you turn the tap or flush the toilet and nothing happens……you may want to consider your prior actions. The snow pack is back….so not to sweat just yet….maybe by July or August….then. When you get turf toe rather than green marks on your tennis shoes….you can always say – I never knew black rock and no vegetation was going to cause local flat rock warming!
Ron,
I think some numbers would help.
How much of California’s water goes to cities?
about 20%. Half of that is used for landscaping. So, 10% of California’s waters goes to our lawns, and only 10% goes to all other urban uses combined.
How much of California’s water goes to growing hay and alfalfa, much of which is exported to China?
about 15%.
How much does those alfalfa farmers make from water they used?
less than $200/ acre-foot.
how much does Poseidon water cost?
over $2,000/acre-foot.
We can get all the water we need, and even increase the amount we use for our lawns, for a tenth of the cost of Desal.
Desal doesn’t now, and probably never will, make sense in California.
Just ask San Diego.
I think that at some point some desal plan might make sense. But not this desal plan at this point.
Never, ever, in Orange County, especially North Orange County, which is where they want to pump this crap.
Israel? Sure. Persian Gulf? Sure.
Look, if they can’t make this junk work in Australia or Florida. It’ll never work here. Our water infrastructure is significantly more redundant than either example.
No, they want to pump it to SOUTH Orange County — which, incidentally, has no representation (south of Irvine) on the OCWD Board, and so would not be on the hook for the cost. This is a subsidy to South OC developers. You know — we’re helping out the poor folk….
That’s new. Ocwd has no jurisdiction in south county.
Last I heard they want to pump this crap to Anaheim to matriculate into North OCs extensive aquafer.
Which, of course, is ridiculous.
We are often put in the position of guessing because their stated plans are always changing: they love to present a moving target.
We know that north OC doesn’t need the water, but south county – especially if it continues developing – arguably does.
We know that development-crazed Rancho Santa Margarita Water District is the only district that’s expressed interest in purchasing this water.
Then there’s the discovery of John Earl that apparently North OC would get no net new water, that MET would sell us that much LESS water, equal to what we would get from Poseidon. And that suggested that south county enthusiasm for Poseidon was on account of more MET water being available because north OC would be using less. It’s unclear if John’s reading of that situation is still true.
Last night staff presented 8 different options for distributing the water. I think only one of them, the last one, “option 4,” involves building pipelines to get the water south past Irvine.
I’m working on my report, I’ll try to have it for tomorrow.
Vern, indeed.
The Santa Margarita Water District is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Rancho Mission Viejo that is currently adding 14,000 new houses to South OC.
Naturally, they do not have enough water. When RMV received its entitlements for “The Ranch Plan” back in 2004 they cooked up a story about buying water from other agencies (I seem to remember Chino was one). It seemed pretty iffy at the time and now would appear even more so.
Still, I don’t know how they can afford to buy super expensive desal – unless somebody else is subsidizing it,
“Subsidizing” it? Try paying for it, period. If South OC suddenly decided to not buy the Rest of OC water, we’d STILL have to pay for it.
THANK YOU.
Also, kudos to Paul for “weapons grade stupid.”
I never mentioned peer swan. You must be brain damaged with that rant about scarcity. We piss out 200 mg offshore when we could just recapture and recycle that instead of sucking it back in to treat once again to pump in the ground to re-pump it out later to treat it again. wassa mada you?
Since when is putting water into a reservoir for future use in peak demand times considered “dumping”,?
When it costs five times its replacement cost.
Think borrowing from your credit card to fill up a savings account for a rainy day fund. That’d be equally as stupid.
It also needs to be treated again after it has to be pumped back out to remove the tri halo methanes created by the chlorine in the reservoir. Tri halo methanes are carcinogens.
I can’t follow you two. That water cannot be replaced by mother nature as she is keeping us in a drought. Sure it has to be treated again, but so what?. All our water is treated – fact of life. I would gladly receive it at the prevailing domestic rate if I could water my lawn more than once a week, 5 minutes a station – maybe even next week when we are to be in the mid-80’s following those dry Santa Ana winds that are predicted to hit tomorrow..
Would you receive it at double the rate?
Five times the rate?
**hint, the project manufactures water at up to ten times the cost of normal municipal supplies. That’s not too far off from using bottled water to water your lawn. Go nuts.
What water source typically fills this reservoir? Imports from the Colorado? Are those resources expected to be available this year? If so, at what quantity and cost?
**hint, the answer is yes. The cost is about a third of desal cost. This project provides no new net water. Just new cost.
Sorry if it’s hard to follow.
There is no actual shortage of water locally. This plan for poseidon is totally unecessary considering our own sources now. To pay up to ten times the amount of muni water for desal water only means that those upstream at best can have more water available to them. But we (Only North OC) foot the bill AND South OC gets the water with no increase in water rates. This is also only to enable high density development in South OC. Dont be a sucker dude.
also, they’ll have to retreat it to ever use it again, as explained in the article.
Let me put this in perspective. All of Southern Ca’s water consumption is about 3 million acre-feet/year. The Imperial Irrigation District (IID), which has the senior water right on Colorado river water, has an allocation of 3.5 million acre-feet /year. IID uses that water to grow vegetables, with is worth about $300/ acre-foot. However, IID recently did a deal with San Diego to sell San Diego a few thousand acre-feet per year, at $1100/ acre-foot.
The imperial valley can make three times as much money selling the water to San Diego than using it locally. And they have enough to supply all of Southern Ca if they want to.
And the cost of Poseidon water? over $2,000/ acre-foot.
And IID isn’t even the cheapest place to buy water within California.
Poseidon’s water will NEVER make economic sense in Orange County
You ask too many questions for a guy that should have all the answers before blasting away.
And, yes, when there is no water available from our usual sources, we will pay dearly. As we do for bottled water now. Ask the people in the central valley communities that have completely run out of water.
We “ask too many questions.”
Excuse me, but you’re talking to people who have been through Artic, the Great Park, the attempted Fairgrounds Swindle, the Disney Streetcar, the attempted Angels Stadium Parking Lot Giveaway, and on and on, all pushed by the same kleptocracy. This is the blog where these questions get asked. And that’s not even touching on all the specific reasons to not trust Poseidon.
Unless I missed something, my comments were not directed at you. You are excused.
Yeah well, I’m stickin up for Ryan here. We’re sort of on a questioning team.
(Fist Emoji)
I think that he was referring to Tyler.
Those are questions you should ask yourself to determine the replacement cost of a perishable good.
Don’t get pissy.
Mr. Cantor – Sorry if it seemed pissy. I was trying to make a point that it is easy for critics to ask questions but difficult for them to provide answers. So, they ask questions to try and put their perceived opponent on the spot. Bottom line, you and I disagree that OC has plenty of water and that Poseidon is not needed, that’s all. And, keep in mind that the flow of the Santa Ana River that is percolated into the earth in Yorba Linda, Anaheim and Orange to replenish our water is treated sewage effluent from Riverside as well as some agriculture/dairy runoff from the Chino-Ontario-Norco area (though that land use is rapidly disappearing, being replaced by more urban sprawl). Occasionally that water is diluted by rein storm runoff sent to the river, but not often. Folks in the IE only half heatedly joke “please flush your toilet, OC needs the water!” Thus, much of what water we have locally is cycled, treated, recycled a lot. If only El Nino would live up to its hype —
Most of that effluent is cleaner than storm water, fyi.
*So, after careful consideration: We need a “Water Czar for California”? We need someone at the helm of allocation that is going to take water off the table for Bill Jones and those Central Valley Ranchers and Farmers? So what we need is DWP that runs like a German Railroad…..during WWII? You guys are dreamers. Evidently, you can’t figure out how to stop the local OCDWP from charging penalty fees to various cities around the county that haven’t reached their proscribed “Rationing Orders”? The devil in indeed in the details. So, to be the continuing devil’s advocate lets put it this way: Unless Desal is dedicated to drinking and potable water that won’t kill your house plants…soon, the acid rain that comes from China and lands on our snow pack in the Sierras will come down to us. All the reverse osmosis in the world cannot keep up with the demand….especially if your buddies in the Real Estate Developer Industry make a run on a 10% increase, across the board, in California. Cutting to the chase: Desal needs to be separated….not joined….with our current water supply. Peer Swan wants that, so the the unapparent cost increases in water pricing can be blame solely on Desal. We disagree with Dr. D., that “it is this Desal deal we should be against”. No, every new program always costs more. Competition creates lower prices and eventually better and more efficient technology. We need to bite the bullet on Desal in HB and head on down the road to a future with intellect life running our water supplies and infrastructure programs.
Why do we need to bite the bullet on desal? You have not articulated a cogent argument as to why 1) the cost is reasonable 2) alternatives are not 3) why a private solution is superior to a public one.
Desal should be implemented as a last resort. We have cheaper and better options that aren’t close to being exhausted. They need to be done first.
If you really believe the cost of desal will come down overtime, that’s one more reason to oppose construction now. Let someone else bear that cost.
*This argument is circular. Let’s put it this way: Yes, we need Solar Powered Turbine Cars that require no fossil fuel. Will the first ones be expensive? Probably. But when they become popular….the cost will fall and the planet will be better off in the exchange.
What your describing (economy of scale) doesn’t apply here. The cost of desal is largely dictated by the cost of energy, which (in this state) doesn’t decline.
In any case, assuming it did, the proposed 60 year contract would allow Poseidon to keep any cost reductions achieved through lowering costs or improving efficiency as profit.
The rate payer would see none of it.
So we’re back to where we started. We don’t have a reason why it is necessary now, why the alternatives aren’t a higher priority, and we lack an explanation as to why the rate payer needs to pay a profit to a stockholders versus building a public asset (which it normally does.)
*It’s funny….but always someone’s Ox is getting gorde…..and it never seems that the recipients of the cash are ever the good guys. Who are the good guys at the OCDWP or the Irvine Ranch Water District or any other group of volunteer citizens that never stop collecting their monthly
stipends and can take 10 lunches to discover that they can’t do much?
Seriously, are you getting tired of seeing this same routine, day after day, year after year and decade after decade? As Pappy always said: “It;s tough to hold back the tide!”
Here is a Feb. 10 update on this topic. Does not settle anything, I know, but seems to reaffirm the direction.
Supervisors reaffirm support for Huntington Beach’s Poseidon desalination plant after lower water-demand estimate
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/water-703469-county-plant.html
I saw that. How disappointing.
This is a fiscal disaster. A real shame four of those supervisors agreed to put their name on this project.
At least we’ll know who to blame for the bill.
Speaking of which: what the hell is right with Andrew Do?
GG had some serious push back. Maybe he listened.
“How disappointing.”
Well, to be disappointed means having hope for something done right in the first place.
I’ll bet those four (likely five) will be there for PringleCorp’s Disney streetcar – which makes even less sense than the Poseidon Adventure.