President George W. Bush receives the “International Medal of PEACE” from Pastor Rick Warren @ Saddleback Church in Orange County, California, on Monday, December 1, 2008
From Andrew Sullivan’s, The Daily Dish -Last night, on Fox News, Sean Hannity insisted that United States needs to “take out” Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Warren said he agreed. Hannity asked, “Am I advocating something dark, evil or something righteous?” Warren responded, “Well, actually, the Bible says that evil cannot be negotiated with. It has to just be stopped…. In fact, that is the legitimate role of government. The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers. Not good-doers. Evildoers.”
Now that Ted Haggard* is out of the way as the head of the christian leadership advisory group to the president, Saddleback Church’s Rick Warren has stepped up his own political position by awarding his “first, ever” International Medal of Peace to our self-proclaimed “WAR PRESIDENT“, GW Bush. I know you’re not kidding Rick because you see yourself as an emerging global Christian presence, but your credibility and believability just took a serious hit on this. What Irony!
Now Rick wants to off the president of Iran. Kill an international leader off. Pow, Bang, Snap!
Political opportunists such as Rick Warren, cloaked as clergy, really need to be addressed. This type of Christian Talibani aggression is not acceptable and it certainly does not deserve Tax-exempt status. His is not a Jesus-based line of thinking -it is politics pure and simple and does not deserve the protections of tax exemption as he espouses redefining the role of our national government in concert with his rally cries for international hate and death. How in the world will his “sheep” make excuses to support Warren’s plans to attack and kill foreign leaders without provocation? Load up the collection plate this Sunday in your show of solidarity to KILL others during the Christmas season.
Who Would Baby Jesus Assassinate? I think Rick Warren is EXACTLY like the evil people Jesus warned his followers about. Rick Warren is making the case of why we NEED separation of State from Church. The man’s a nutter. He’s a sick joke.
* Pastor Ted” Haggard was leader of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) from 2003 until November 2006. At the height of his influence, Haggard “talks to… Bush or his advisers every Monday” and stated at that time that “no pastor in America holds more sway over the political direction of evangelicalism.” In November 2006, he resigned or was removed from all of his leadership positions after he admitted soliciting prostitute Mike Jones for homosexual sex and methamphetamine. Initially Haggard denied even knowing Mike Jones, but as a media investigation proceeded he acknowledged that some allegations, such as his purchase of methamphetamine, were true. He later added “sexual immorality” to his list of confessions.
In 1986 right-wing Christian extremist R.L. Hymers Jr., the founding pastor of the Fundamentalist Baptist Tabernacle of Los Angeles, called upon his parishoners to “pray for the death” of Supreme Court Justice William Brennan because of his pro-choice decisions on the court.
In 2005 right-wing Christian extremist Pat Robertson called for the assasination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
Now this by Rick Warren.
These folks are very sick and very dangerous. Warren likes to portray himself as level-headed and rational. These comments give us a better picture as to who he really is.
These folks are no better than the mullahs leading the Islamic extremists.
Sean,
Fred Phelps used to kind of be in a very dark and ugly category by himself. Now it seems as though other churches, and most alarming – Mega Churches-are on a similar path.
I think that Rick Warren has it mostly right when he said it was the government’s job to stop evil. I think our government could seriously put a crimp in evildoing and evilsaying by removing tax exemptions for the likes of Rick Warren and his war mongering political congregation.
Here is an abreviated bio for Fred Phelps, another hater-for-God:
Fred Phelps is a self-described “Primitive Baptist” preacher fixated on the few Biblical passages that mention homosexuality. He is the pastor of Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, where he preaches that “God hates fags”, and that the Biblical punishment for homosexuality is death, followed by eternal damnation to hell. His church is largely populated by the Phelps family, and they are best known for their demonstrations — holding garish placards writ with vulgar stick-figure slogans and singing upside-down hymns reworked to fit Phelps’ message. The group publicly celebrates God’s wrath after tragedies and natural disasters, and since September 11 they have regularly picketed the funerals of American soldiers killed in Iraq.
“Love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High: for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.” quote from a Jewish rabbi of the Hebrew name Yeshua, as related by a Greek physician named Luke in about 60 AD in the 6th chapter of his book at about the 37th line.
(The Grecian form of the name Yeshua is Iesous . The letter ‘J’ did not come into common use in English until about 1600.)
“I think that Rick Warren has it mostly right when he said it was the government’s job to stop evil.”
Wrong. Government’s job is to stop crime.
Warren is a joke, just like Smith, Laurie and others in the longlist of OC based voodoo sales schleps.
I am stunned at those that give thier money to these guys.
I kinda dig them though, “Calvary by the sea” is what Laurie called it between tequila shots at his million dollar beach house.
I’m very surprised, and very disappointed, to hear this kind of perspective coming from Warren. I, too, thought he was at least somewhat rational, compared to nuts like Pat Robertson. I was wrong.
I have a feeling Warren is a sort of chameleon who says whatever will please the person he’s talking to; that’s obviously served him well so far, but makes him susceptible to spewing hatred and lunacy when trying to impress a psycho like Hannity.
Vern & All,
Do you think that this recent spew can be attributed to some over-confidence in being the number one Xtian – Dobson running second and Haggard basically out of the running for the last couple of years?
Mark Duss over at the Washington Monthly offers his own insight:
In any case, if this were a conversation between an Iranian TV host and an ayatollah in which they discussed scriptural justifications for “taking out” high ranking members of the U.S. government, you’d probably see Sean Hannity running the clip on his show — while slowly shaking his head in pious disapproval — as evidence of what crazy extremists those Iranians are. As it is, they’ll probably be running this on Iranian TV as evidence of what crazy extremists those Americans are.
Red Vixen,
I frankly don’t think that Warren views himself as the “number one Xtian”. And it is also true that many mainstream evangelicals view him with suspicion, given his willingness to have people like Hillary or Barack speak at his church. He also places a big priority on helping the poor and care of the environment, whereas loons like Dobson generally only care about the abortion and gay marriage issues.
And it is also true that many mainstream evangelicals view him with suspicion, given his willingness to have people like Hillary or Barack speak at his church.
anon,
Are you sure it’s not jealousy? The fact that this guy can get guests of national political importance makes him unique. Obama, McCain, Clinton don’t show up at just any old church.
I appreciate your observations that Warren is focused on the needy and poor. That’s find and good. However, if he’s going to shoot his mouth off about wiping out other leaders in foreign lands, he’s creating problems for our nation and is blurring the line of what can be considered mainstream vs. wackyreligiouszealotnutjob.
Red Vixen,
No, I don’t think it’s jealousy. It really comes down to disagreeing on “agenda”. Warren tends to want to broaden the agenda, and nuts like Dobson want to keep the agenda narrowly focused on divisive social issues.
“nuts like Dobson”
Anon,
I agree that Dobson is nuts, however if Warren is out there advocating the assasination of foreign leaders he is a crazy nutball as well.
It is time that folks wake up and realize what these folks really are, Christofacists.
It really comes down to disagreeing on “agenda”.
Well, Warren just set his “agenda” back a few steps, jumping on board the illegal assassination of an elected foreign leader just to get a pat on the head from slant-head Hannity. What’s with this retarded fixation on Ahmadinejad anyway? I thought by now everybody knew he is just a figurehead and Iran is run by the mullahs. A popularly elected figurehead whose popularity has been sinking with Bush’s. And these rightwing morons, now joined by supposed moderate Rick Warren, dream of making him a martyr?
Sean and Vern,
I certainly feel that Warren’s view ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE is wrong. But I’m not going to use a person’s position on one issue, negate the good things they’ve done, and lump them in with nuts like Dobson and start calling them names. I’ll leave that unsophisticated approach to Sean.
Anon,
Rick Warren is much more clever and slick in the packaging of his fanaticism than are James Dobson and Pat Robertson, so for this we should just give him a pass?
He has just learned from their mistakes and has managed to lull folks into a false sense of security. His agenda is not much different from their’s, it’s just how he sells it.
You’re so “sophisticated” that he has you buying into his crap and believing that he is somehow different from the crackpots.
Sean,
Well by all means, carry on with your tar-and-feather, guilt by association, “he’s this way on one issue so that makes him that way on all issues” approach to human relations. It really helps make the world a better place.
What good are Churches and Preachers anyway? I have no use for any of them and I’m a Christian. Tax them all and help balance the books. Why should they be able to enjoy all this country has to offer tax free? Who do they think they are, millionaires?
Anon #16,
And you just keep playing the role of an ostriche with your head stuck in the sand and keep thinking Warren and his agenda are any different from the Dobson’s and Robertson’s.
Sean,
Your position isn’t even logical–that’s how silly it is. It’s actually quite Pedrozian. It goes something like this;
Politician A, a Democrat, voted for the “Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002”
Politician B, a Republican, voted for the “Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002”
Conclusion; Politicians A and B have the same agenda on every other issue.
Aww heck, let’s try it with real people.
Sen. Hillary Clinton voted for the resolution.
Sen. Rick Santorum voted for the resolution.
Conclusion; Clinton and Santorum have (or had) the same agenda, believe all the same things, want all the same things for the country. They’re practically the same person.
I mean c’mon, that’s the way right-wingers think. Everything is black and white. There’s no such thing as nuance and shades of grey.
anon #19,
Please enlighten me as to how Rick Warren is any different from the Pat Robertson’s or James Dobson’s of the Christofacist world other than how he packages himself.
Pat Robertson is now involved in fighting against global warming. Should we remove him from the nut list?
Rick Warren has just done a better public relations job than the other nut jobs. He like Dobson was a supporter of Prop 8. He like Robertson has called for the illegal assasination of a foreign leader.
Show me the differences in these folks.
Robertson helps provide services to the poor. He sends food to poor in other nations. Does this remove him from the nut job list?
You keep insinuating that Warren is so much different from the others and yet you have failed to demonstrate how.
Sean,
Warren is extremely involved in the AIDS crisis in Africa. Dobson is not. Dobson could care less about those with AIDS. Warren believes that Christians should care for the environment. Warren has placed a high priority in addressing world poverty. Dobson could care less about that. Dobson, and others, have resisted this “broadening” of the evangelical agenda.
You keep talking about the way Warren “packages” himself. That does nothing to explain away his positions and priorities with regard to other issues, and does nothing to reveal the entire person.
When you start questioning the entirety of a person’s sincerity and motivations, you start down the slippery slope of judgmentalism and self-righteousness. Not a good thing.
And you failed to refute the lack of logic in your position.
Today is Dec.18th and we are learning that
Obama will let Rick Warren give his inaugural
invocation. How ridiculous.
Hey Barack, you WON the election, remember?
And it wasn’t that close.