I spoke again with Joe Holtzman today. He is the community leader whose car was attacked by unhinged Mission Viejo City Council candidate Rick Sandzimier, when the latter was caught putting up his campaign signs illegally on private property, by Mr. Holtzman.
Holtzman was interviewed by the Mission Viejo Deputy Sheriff’s today. They were clearly fishing. Sandzimier has no evidence or witnesses to back up his outrageous claim that Holtzman’s car hit him – when the car was parked at the time.
The Deputy Sheriffs did allege that the incident may have been videotaped by a mysterious figure. If so, Holtzman is thrilled. The video will corroborate his story, he says.
In related news, other Mission Viejo residents have stepped up with allegations that Sandzimier put his signs on their lawns illegally, without their permission. It turns out this is not only illegal, but the candidates know it. They are given city statutes when they turn in their campaign paperwork, that include this interesting rule:
On page 27/28, under Political Signs, Section 9.29.315 Temporary Sign, (e): NO TEMPORARY SIGNS SHALL BE PLACED UPON THE PROPERTY OF ANOTHER WITHOUT THE EXRESS WRITTEN APPROVAL OF THE OWNER OR OCCUPANT OF SAID PROPERTY AND THE DIRECTOR. (i) NO TEMPORARY SIGN SHALL BE POSTED OR OTHERWISE AFFIXED IN ANY PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, OR UPON ANY PUBLIC PROPERTY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY BUILDING, WALL, BRIDGE, RAILROAD TRESTLE, HYDRANT, TREE, SHRUB, TREE STAKE OR GUARD, STREET SIGN…
As we previously disclosed, Sandzimier has also been caught putting signs on trees – illegal!!!
Why the media is not holding this guy accountable is a very good question. You would think that Sandzimier, a Planning Commissioner and an Urban Planner, would know the damn sign rules!
Evidently it is the policy of the Juice that if there are not witnesses to an illegal act it didn’t happen. Ignore the fact that there are more holes in Mr. Holtzman’s story than you find in Swiss cheese, if you don’t have a picture or DNA to prove it, it must not be true. Let’s ignore the fact that criminals are convicted with circumstantial evidence such as bruised legs and first person testimony – we at the Juice think you are innocent as long as no one other than the victim sees you. “Why is the media not holding this guy accountable” – talk about hypocrisy.
Geoff,
It cuts both ways. You should know that as a lawyer. Your boy Sandzimier has NO proof. He is a hothead appointed by another hothead. I have no doubt the weenie ran into the car on purpose so he could cause a ruckus. That is EXACTLY what I would expect from a MacLean clone.
I vaguely know Mr. Holtzman first hand and I do not know Mr. Sandzimier at all. You are right that circumstantial evidence cuts both ways. Mr. Pedroza and Mr. Gilbert would have you believe that you have to take the accused’s word unless there is an independent witness that will corroborate the victim’s eyewitness account. That position shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the law and would have have hundreds of thousands of convicted felons on the streets that are currently in prison if that were the law. Here is what I know based on the police report and the stories that have appeared here and in the OC Register:
1) ALL of Mr. Sandzimier’s statements were made CONTEMPORANEOUSLY with the accident and have remained consistent since that time. Mr. Holtzman issued no statement after talking to the police, refused to talk to the OC Register when their reporter called for his side of the story saying instead that he “would make a statement in a few days” after consulting with others. He then made his statement to Art Pedroza. Even Mr. Gilbert and Mr. Pedroza have constantly had to back peddle because of the inconsistencies in Mr. Holtzman’s story as reported in the Juice.
2) Mr. Sandzimier called the police BEFORE he was out of his car when he spotted a car following him – Mr. Holtzman first claimed (as reported in the Juice) that “he was on his way home from a Mission Viejo football game when he ‘happened upon’ Mr. Sandzimier at about 12:15 a.m.” When it was pointed out that the Mission Viejo game ended at approximately 10:00 p.m., Mr. Gilbert jumped in and pointed out that the police report on the Holtzman incident indicated that the altercation occurred a little before 11:00 p.m. Mr. Gilbert claimed this proved that Mr. Holtzman could have been on the way home from the game, I think that it just proves Mr. Holtzman lied to Art Pedroza.
3) Mr. Sandzimier has consistently stated that Mr. Holtzman followed him for several blocks before the altercation. When I was working against Measure D, I witnessed first hand this kind of behavior from members of the Naysayers group like Mr. Holtzman and so I find this credible . . . and very creepy. Mr. Holtzman claims that he happened upon Mr. Sandzimier putting up signs. This is possible, but between the two stories, I find Mr. Sandzimier’s story more credible (which is what a jury would be asked to do if this case were to go to trial).
4) Mr. Sandzimier, Mr. Holtzman and the police report all agree that Mr. Holtzman honked his horn to get Mr. Sandzimier’s attention. Mr. Sandzimier reported that Mr. Holtzman “laid on his horn for without a break” for quite a while and was yelling at Mr. Sandzimier from inside the safety of his car. Again, I find Mr. Sandzimier’s version of the story more credible (and this is what a jury in this case would be asked to do).
5) Here is the fun part. At this point Mr. Sandzimier alleges that Mr. Holtzman lunged his car forward and that Mr. Holtzman’s car hit the leg of Mr. Sandzimier. Mr. Holtzman, and evidently Mr. Pedroza, claim that Mr. Sandzimier impaled himself on Mr. Holtzman’s car by running into it. Really? This inconsistency certainly contributes to my disbelief of most of Mr. Holtzman’s stories and reminds me of the scene in Liar Liar in which Jim Carey roughs himself up in the bathroom. (posted below) I really feel like I shouldn’t even have to state the obvious which is that I find Mr. Sandzimiers statement more credible than Mr. Holtzman’s and I would like to see the jury try to keep itself from laughing when presented with that claim from Mr. Holtzman.
6) Immediately after the assault with a deadly weapon/car impaling (depending on which side you believe), Mr. Sandzimier states that Mr. Holtzman immediately yelled “you have no witnesses.” This really didn’t make sense to me at the time, but now that I see Mr. Gilbert and Mr. Pedroza’s position that no witnesses = innocence, I see this as a consistent thread running through Mr. Holtzman’s “defense.”
All in all I find that Mr. Sandzimier’s statement made at the time of the incident holds up and is credible. Mr. Holtzman’s statement made many days after the incident looks contrived and has bigger holes than the Holland Tunnel. What a ridiculous incident to define this year’s Mission Viejo election, but is the kind of nonsense that has been tolerated coming from the naysayers like Mr. Holtzman for years. Hopefully official action will be taken on this incident so that no one is seriously hurt next time.
Geoff.
You apparently are willing to run with the side of this story that you prefer. That’s your choice. I made a choice nine months ago not to write a story as the facts needed to be confirmed.
After interviewing Dave Leckness and posting that interview on Nov 9th a person unknown to me added a comment on that story accusing Dave of hiring undocumented workers.
Using your yard stick I should have made that the story of the day. The national debate on illegal immigration would surely have sent our hits through the roof but I refrained from accepting the input without proof, something an attorney should practice if we are to “trust and verify” allegations.
That Nov 9th post generated 59 comments the last of which was added on Oct 4th of this year. Check out the sequence of comments that follow on that exchange regarding illegal workers and chastise me for failing to make a big issue without solid proof.
You are quick to accept Rick Sandzimier’s account yet are quick to refute and question the validity of Joe’s personal input to Art Pedroza.
I will address your above comments next.
Reply
Ebin James
Posted December 9, 2009 at 3:14 PM
Is this the same Dave Leckness that hired illegals to watch his children and work in his small business?
Reply
Larry Gilbert
Posted December 9, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Ebin. As a first time participant I want to caution you on engaging in a personal attack about anyone. This is simply a warning. If you have something to contribute to this thread, in support or opposition, bring it on.
Reply
Larry Gilbert
Posted December 9, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Folks. I just spoke to Mission Viejo recall candidate Dave Leckness who “denies the allegation.” His daughters are now 15 and 19. Let’s move on.
Reply
Ebin James
Posted December 9, 2009 at 4:17 PM
That is why I asked it if was the same Dave Leckness, Mr. Gilbert. This gentleman owns a Kwik Kopy Printing in Mission Viejo. “Hired” (past tense) Gilberto and his wife’s brother to work in his small business for years. While Gilberto’s wife “watched” (again past tense) his children before they were teenagers. I am not engaging in any personal attacks, but if this is the same person I do not want someone promoting small business who practices or has “practiced” these hiring habits in our city’s government. If it is not the same person, my apologies.
Gilbert comment. Sometime after these exchanges I did stop at Kwik Kopy printing where Dave introduced me to this employee named Gilberto. That in itself is still not proof of his citizenship.
By the way. ICE has been notified.
“Gilberto?” That’s ironic Mr. Gilbert. Maybe Dave named him after you.
I will save your post above Larry for the next time you chastised someone for posting a comment of no relevance to the original post.
Geoff.
The issue I raise relates to linkage of two possible stories. One of which was posted and the other was not.
Feel free to save any or all of my posts. I have a file cabinet full of my Juice posts over the past four years along with back up documentation supporting my research.
Geoff.
Joe gave his account to Art Pedroza. By the way, the Register reporter was to contact Joe on Wed and called today saying he was busy yesterday and never called to schedule a follow up. V.P. Ken Brusic’s office was contacted regarding today’s call to Joe from a new reporter identifying himself as Chris. New in that our local MV Register reporter for the past year plus has been a man named Niyaz Pirani.
As to the timing. You are really stretching for this one. Perhaps Art didn’t hear Joe correctly or Joe was not clear when they spoke. Here again, I wasn’t there when their exchange took place. You didn’t bother to question the time when adding your earlier comments until I spotted the obvious error. The police dispatch report needs no further proof yet you are grasping for straws.
Assault with a deadly weapon. Now that’s an interesting remark. Once again I refer to Joe’s account. If I read Trish’s email the car driven by Mr. Holtzman had stopped and was not racing down the road at 45 MPH.
This is becoming useless. We will await the release of the police report to see what the investigator has to say as the OCSD Deputies did not arrive at the scene until later that evening.
I am sure Trish has already contacted the DA and is pleading with him to take action.
Well the Saddleback Valley News is reporting today that Mr. Holtzman refused to comment again yesterday. Larry keeps noting that only two people were there (assuming the shadowy figure has not come forward or was not really there), but if Mr. Holtzman refuses to talk to any news outlets about it, is it a wonder why people believe Mr. Sandzimier?
Newbie. Good morning.
What you do not know is that Joe made himself available for the Register reporter on Wed. Someone named Chris called on Thur to say he was busy on Wednesday and asked to put their discussion on speakerphone instead of inviting Joe to their Lake Forest office where he could make eye contact as he interviewed Joe. They could also have met at a mutually agreeable location but that was not offered.
After hearing this from Joe I contacted Register Editor and Sr. VP Ken Brusic and shared that exchange with his secretary Cheryl who promised to pass this info. to their political director. As such Joe has not avoided the media.
Furthermore, what we both read in today’s paper is the same story recycled.
And, if you claim that Joe has refused to talk to any news outlet I would respectfully disagree. Art Pedroza, founder of this blog, interviewed Joe on two ocassions and has shared those exchanges on this political blog which has over one million hits. As such we are a news outlet that is read by people around the country as confirmed by our internal data.
As of now we are awaiting the police report to see what the Deputies have surmised. Until that report becomes available I would suggest patience.
Larry,
That’s a fair point on the Juice, I was merely referring to the Register or another newspaper. However, it raises a couple of other curious points. The first is why Mr. Holtzman had no problem speaking with Art soon after the alleged assault took place, but he refused to talk to the Register until this past Wednesday, several days later. The second is that, as I interpret your post, the Register offered to conduct a phone interview but Mr. Holtzman refused because he wanted to do an in person interview. I’m curious, did Art meet Mr. Holtzman face-to-face both times he “spoke” with Mr. Holtzman, or did he speak with him by telephone or email?
Newbie.
Joe did not jump on the phone to call Art. As I am out of town I cannot confirm when their first an dseocnd exchanges took place.
Perhaps not knowing the person who called Joe asked this person to identify himself .
You might ask him yourself.
I believe Joe and Art communicated by phone, not email.
Just listened to Tom McClintock address the PRI luncheon. Sorry you missed it.