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I attended the city of Lake Forest council meeting last night to observe the council reaction to a proposal from Scott Voigts, their newest member, on following the lead of Mission Viejo and other CA cities to mandate compliance with the E-Verify system by City vendors.
When we reached that area for closing council comments, Member Voigts asked for consensus from his peers to place this item on a future agenda. Not getting consensus, his suggestion died. Having attended well over 100 city council meetings in cities around our state I was surprised that such a policy exists. In Mission Viejo any council member can contact the City Clerk prior to a future meeting, prepare a brief report explaining the issue, and ask that his or her proposal be added to a future Agenda.
Some of these council suggestions might have been campaign pledges in which they hope to get majority support from their peers. To shut down any council member proposal with the requirement of a consensus is virtually having a vote before the vote. Give the proponent an opportunity to publicly promote his or her Agenda item to the public and have an open recorded vote by your peers. I have witnessed many 1-4 and 2-3 votes over the past two decades. The right to force your peers to hear you out and cast their votes is what open government should include.
At a prior Lake Forest council meeting I heard Mayor Herzog tell the audience that Lake Forest does monitor the city vendors and should one fail to meet the requirements, that contract is terminated. Therefore he feels that E-Verify is unnecessary.
To me the big picture is that any council member elected by a their citizens deserves the right to place items on future agendas. The irony is that Scott Voigts came in first in the November 2010 election. Not being actively involved in his campaign, I cannot say if supporting E-Verify was one of his campaign pledges.
For those not familiar with E-verify here is some background data:
1986: Ronald Reagan’s The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) required employers to verify that all newly-hired employees present “facially valid” documentation verifying the employee’s identity and his or her legal authorization to accept employment in the United States. The I-9 form or more properly the Employment Eligibility Verification Form is provided by the federal government for that purpose. Every employee hired after November 6, 1986 must complete an I-9 form at the time of hire.
- 1996: Bill Clinton signs Executive Order 12989 That is titled, “Economy and Efficiency in Government Procurement Through Compliance With Certain Immigration and Naturalization Act Provisions”
- 1997: Pilot program for E-verify is created and used on a volunteer basis.
- 2008: George W. Bush Executive Order 13465 which amends EO 12989 – “Economy and Efficiency in Government Procurement Through Compliance with Certain Immigration and Nationality Act Provisions and Use of an Electronic Employment Eligibility Verification System“. This is in conjunction with the Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR)
Page 3 of the current Mission Viejo Ordinance reads as follows:
Sec. 2.80.030 Application of requirements.
(a) The City shall enroll and participate in the E-verify Program, as amended. The City Manager shall oversee the City’s participation in this program and shall ensure that it is applied to all persons to be hired by the City as City Employees.
(b). As a condition for the award or renewal of any City Contract, Product, Contribution or grant to a Business Entity or Contractor after July 1, 2007, for which the reasonable value of the employment, labor or personal services shall exceed $30,000.00, the Business Entity or Contractor shall provide the City documentation affirming its enrollment and participation in the E-Verify program. The Business Entity or Contractor shall be required to continue its participation in the E-Verify program throughout the course of the business relationship with the City.
(e) The City Manager shall require not less than an annual audit of the contracts the City has entered into that are within the jurisdiction of this Chapter 2.80. In March and September of each calendar year the City Manager shall provide a written report to the City Council detailing the City’s review and enforcement program, including, but not limited to, a summary of the accomplished and proposed performance audits of Contractors and Business Entities, recommendations for further reviews ,if any, and any recommendations for program refinement that the City Manager has identified in the course of applying this Chapter 2.80.”
@ Larry G:
I wrote a prior post on this…here is the link…there is a bit of commentary there too (some of it on the lighter side).
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2010/09/cm-mayor-mansoor-imposing-innefective-anti-business-e-verify-program/
Francisco “Paco”
The Lake Forest policy is a violation of the Brown Act. This policy, in effect, allows a silent veto to prevent full discussion and public input. This is the exact kind of power play the Brown Act was enacted to stop. I will check this out and make my own appearance in Lake Forest.
Larry,
As someone who was actively involved in Scott’s campaign, I can confirm that E-Verify was part of his campaign platform. I’m proud of Scott for working so quickly to honor the promises he made to the people during his campaign.
As for the Lake Forest process, I agree with Geoff that it raises serious Brown Act concerns. As you said Larry, the Council can effectively prevent a vote on a matter, without the required public hearing and public participation, merely by failing to support a request that the item be placed on the agenda. This is an unusual method that should be addressed quickly to ensure that the public is truly apprised of all of the Council’s business.
Larry,
Why are you meddling in Lake Forest? I’ve watched you in full “Larry” mode and you look and act like an angry old person, It’s bad enough we have to put up with your BS in Mission Viejo. Get a life and maybe you’d be a much happier person. From what I see your just plain miserable!
anonymous.
Meddling? I have multiple friends on the Lake Forest city council. LF taxpayers, who attend our church, appreciate my participation in their local activities, be it attending military ceremonies at their cemetary or reading scripture at a prayer breakfast.
In fact I even wrote a positive letter about their redevelopment of El Toro Road and reminded mayor Herzog of that article on Tuesday when addressing their council.
Sorry to disappoint you but I am a very happy guy. Glad my blog posts keep you entertained.
I agree with you. I suggest Larry keep his stink on his side of the border. We’re a blue collar town and don’t take kindly to outsiders pissing on our trees.
In addition……..I noticed you did not state your name or city that you reside in at the meeting. You don’t even live in that city so stay out of our business!!
Sorry anonymous, but City business is public business. While I don’t always agree with Mr. Gilbert, he provides a necessary service of maintaining accountability. You have nothing to worry about anonymous unless you are promoting free spending or are corrupt.
I’ll second that. Larry and I rarely agree on those things Mission Viejo, but he serves a valuable watchdog service that I hope all cities have, even if he can be the proverbial thorn in the side of the Council majority. Plus, Lake Forest is a neighbor and their policies can have an impact on our city as well. If Larry’s willing to go to meetings (something many of us don’t have the time to do), then more power to him.
anonymous.
You noticed I didn’t state my name? Were you there?
when allowing me to speak Peter said I “know the routine” (for addressing council) and asked me to fill out a speaker slip “after addressing the council” which I did and handed it to the secretary. It has my name and two organizations I represent.
As to that policy in Mission Viejo we can now send e-mails of our questions to our mayor, to be read during the meeting, and, according to our city attorney Bill Curley, can sign them Barky, Barky, if we wish.
Whose the bigger clown? You or MV mayor Dave Leckness.
I would vote against mandating e-Verify, for many of the same reasons Francisco mentioned in his linked piece. And apparently the Lake Forest council majority would also vote against it. (?)
But that’s not the point. If Mr. Voigt promised voters, who came out in great numbers to vote for him, that he would bring the matter to a vote, it should be brought to a vote. Maybe the anti-e-Verify crowd there is chicken to make that NO vote?
Vern. I briefly spoke to Scott this morning while he was attending the pension discussion event in Irvine. When he returns home I will ask if in fact that was one of his campaign pledges to his supporters.
The bottom line the simple fact that this stonewalling by his peers may in fact be illegal
When he returns home I will ask if in fact that was one of his campaign pledges to his supporters.
Newbie said it was. I believe Newbie.
Vern,
I appreciate the vote of confidence. More importantly, your altogether reasonable stance on getting the issue to a public hearing, regardless of your position on E-Verify. This is about the transparency of the public process, and not stonewalling with a questionable procedural process so you don’t have to make a difficult choice. We elect Councilmembers to make just such difficult choices and then defend them when re-election comes around.
As a question to both you and Francisco – what is your proposal in lieu of E-Verify to address the hiring of illegals?
@ Newbie:
For now, make E-Verify VOLUNTARY. . . so that business are NOT forced to comply with a regulation and process that is not yet effective nor efficient.
IMPROVE it ASAP, and then make it MANDATORY.
But E-Verify is just a band-aid for now…neither this, nor the failed policy of deporting people who by in large are contributing will solve this issue.
At current rates it would take about 30 years to deport people, and this after spending Billions of dollars that we do not have.
We should work on fixing our broken immigration system, with Comprehensive Immigration Reform, and then focus our limited financial and enforcement resources to deport the truly VIOLENT offenders and to COMBAT HUMAN trafficking.
Well, I’m not answering for Francisco, but the fact that undocumented workers are able to get low-paying jobs here, that Americans don’t seem to want to do, and that our local businesses can hire them thereby keeping our prices down, is not high up on my list of big worries.
E-Verify should be PART of a comprehensive immigration reform package that also provides an eaiser path to legality and citizenship, or else it just makes things more difficult for everybody – American businesses and consumers, and simple Mexicans trying to feed their families. And I suspect that for many people it’s just an expression of their anti-Mexican bias. (Not you guys, God forfend!)
Illegal aliens come to this country in droves for one reason and one reason alone: So they can survive. I suspect that many of the brown shirts that fill the ranks of the Teabagger Party have never traveled to destitute, third world countries. For if they did, they would realize just how lucky they are to have been born in the greatest country in the world. And better still they could understand and sympathize with the illegal immigrant community.
Life for most people in the third world revolves around simple survival. Scraping by, not sure when you’ll eat again or if you’ll live to see tomorrow. They come to this country out of a need for survival. I’m sure that if the shoe was on the other foot, the Teabaggers and other no-nothing bigots and xenophobs would do the same thing. I sure would. Anything to secure my family’s health and safety. And oh by the way, most Americans born in this country are too lazy, too ego-centric, and feel too entitled to work the jobs illegals do everyday. I can’t remember the last time I saw a white guy pushing a lawn mower.
anonymous for life.
You won’t see me pushing a lawn mower because we don’t have a lawn.
This post is not a debate on immigration.
It’s about the mayor of Lake Forest refusing to permit the council to have a full and open discussion on an elected member’s desire to add an item to their agenda. That may be in violation of the Ralph M. Brown Act open meeting law.
Beyond that it relates to a federal policy called E-Verify.
And a sidebar for all those W. Bush haters. We covered our former president when he spoke at a Town Hall in Ontario called Working for America that was sponsored by The Latino Coalition Foundation, the Ontario Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, the Latino Business Association and the OC Hispanic Chamber.
“W” said he is proud of the number of Latino’s who own their own business..work hard to access the American dream.” That opportunity still exists in this country.
The point to be made is that, for the most part, we are all immigrants. My family came to this country from Europe. The debate we have is that they waited in line and came through the front door legally. The USA still honors its immigration quota sytem that includes people entering the USA “legally” from Mexico.
In 2006, with 173,753 people, Mexico had the highest number of legal immigrants entering our country. China was second.
Also, VIOLATIONS of the BROWN ACT should NOT be allowed to occur, as this makes the elected and appointed officials less accountable.
A vote should be taken on the matter, whether one agrees with it or not.
And I agree, we are part of a larger community (we have family, friends, and shop and visit in other cities in our county) …Larry Gilbert or any Citizen who is so inclined should be able to express their concerns, or their appreciation to elected or appointed officials (in those rare cases when there is reason for it) .
Francisco “Paco”
My opinions only and not those of any group.
Thank you Paco.
That anonymous individual has an agenda which has nothing to do with our coverage. Its more a case of bitterness to anything I say or do.
If you read the Register check out Erika Ritchie’s coverage in today’s edition, Local Section, Page 5, where Scott said “the issue came up regularly during his campaign.”
He did not indicate if he made a campaign promise or not but that is not the crux of my post.
Erika is a good local reporter. She followed JP Ledesma while he drafted Mission Viejo’s version of E-Verify. We have a good working rapport.
The good news for Lake Forest, or any other city, is that you can cut and paste our Ordinance and save attorney fees.