We fielded all sorts of bitter accusations from teachers when FFFF handed out our list of teacher and administrator pay at this week’s teacher rallies. Responses ranged from the simple “the list is garbage” and “my brother does not make that kind of money” all the way to “the District distorted the figures because they’re against us.”
Yes, we explained that the numbers came straight from district HQ (Here are details, in case you’ve missed it: FJUHSD Salaries over $90,000 and FSD Salaries over $90,000.) But some of the chanting unioneers could not be swayed.
Let me get this straight; I have a masters degree in military sociology from the University of Texas. Later I picked up a BS in geology from the University of Oregon. My graduate GPA was 3.80. I have 34 years teaching experience on Guam, in Texas and the last 25 years in California. I was a mentor teacher, I served on the district curriculum committee, and I was science department chair at my high school. And you’re telling me I am not worth $92,000 per year. You got to be kidding me!
Credentials and background only are a starting point for compensation and worth. Market forces drive compensation which is why an idiot like Charlie Sheen can earn $20,000,000 a year while a Phd Peace Corps employee with 30 years experience will make $30K. Public Unions have devised ways to avoid market forces.
While I appreciate your efforts, you work just a little more than 1/2 of the year and you are underreporting your salary in terms of relation with private market salaries because your $92K does not include your benefit deferential which often doubles the base salary. So if you are asking are you “worth” $300,000 (adjusted for part time and benefits) the answer is certainly NO. I would argue that $92,000 is ridiculous for a public school teacher regardless of credentials given the hours demands, benefits and working conditions.
You are worth a million dollars. Your worth is not a question. The problem is that you are overpaid compared to the rest of the nation. There are plenty of working people who have the same or similar degrees who are working at jobs that are not funded by the government. Those in government have no regard to where they approve funds from. We are going broke funding professors like you.
I never said what you are worth. Teachers unions are calling for tax increases and I’m just showing everyone what they are trying to protect.
The teacher’s union are trying to protect my $92,000 per year because they and the district believe I am worth it. You hair splitting escapes me.
The teacher’s unions make money off of you, so of course they want to jack your salary as high as possible. The “District” does not pay your salary out of their own pocket, they pay it out of ours, so they often have little hesitation to ask for increased taxes as it is no skin off of their nose.
In that case, I wonder what you will do if the tax hikes don’t pass and there isn’t enough money to pay you what you think you’re worth. Will you quit?
I will go on strike.
Then you should lose your job for acting like and being a spoiled brat.
I am looking at your Linkedin page. What are you worth and what would you do if you were forced to take a haircut?
“I will go on strike.”
For the children, right?
Please let me know when you go on strike. I will be there to make sure everyone knows how much you were making when you quit.
very perceptive….yes for the children….you know why…do you want some incompetent with a teaching credential from National University or Azusa Pacific teaching your kids at $26,000 per year. If the answer is yes, then your family deserves that particular “quality of education…….you get what you pay for….nothing less and nothing more
Actually most kids’ teachers did get credentialled at diploma mills like National University and Azusa Pacific, et al.
Go back to Guam. 34 years obviously weren’t enough.
And once again, BUSH hits the nail square on the head.
Alty53, congratulations on your academic accomplishments! that must have taken quite a bit of disipline and hard work.
The FACT is, you are the rare exception, at best we can hope for a four year graduate from CSUF, SJSU or if were lucky we get a teacher with some special skills for UC Davis or maybe Riverside.
The majority though, especially when you examine the post doctorate degrees are from the mills like Biola, Azuza, Phoenix and such, this is the result of those enterprises infiltrating organizations like the California Activities Director conference in Reno, where one such outfit explained how for $50K (which would be reimbursed by TAXPAYERS), they could make $500,000 in additional revenue.
The system is Broken, It does’nt take a MASTERS DEGREE to figure that out!
Hold on G,
So these private universities are unsatisfactory in terms of credentials and pay BUT, pressing zoom out of Fullerton on this whole issue, the tax extension portends to stave off another seismic slash of the CSU and UC systems. At the CSU level, 32% tuition hikes and enrollment caps are being planned for in the event that the tax extension doesn’t pass.
Fundamentally, there are two discussions: funding and pedagogy. I think it is more fruitful to examine closing corporate loopholes, adjusting the tax structure to address what I call ‘tax bracketeering’ (http://www.cbp.org/pdfs/2011/110412_Who_Pays_Taxes.pdf) and yes, taking out the commercial property tax break provisions of Prop 13.
The pedagogical pissing contest is a whole ‘nother post.
In the case of public education: You don’t get what you pay for. You pay a lot and get YOU!
I won’t say all. But please do us a favor and get your fat lazy SPOILED brat self out of our publicly paid for class room!
What made you choose Azusa Pacific?
hummmm…I thought so….Mr. Kiger………I believe you are another one of those Tea Party welfare queens who always want something for nothing………according to you, “I hate taxes because I hate government (read: public education )” Deep down inside you are a loser who does not have the wherewithal to compete.
Nice troglodyte comeback alty. Ok to use homophobic phrases (Tea Party welfare queens) when it suits your purpose to distract and deflect intelligent discussion, but you would condemn these verbiage if used by Mr. Kilger. You are a union hack that is the real loser sucking sustenance off of the public teat selfishly.
Wow, those advanced degrees and inflated sense of self-worth sure helped you put Mr. Kiger in his place with a well thought out and reasoned “you are a loser” Tea Partier post. Way to represent. Oh, and when you’re touting your experience and credentials, at least do us all a favor and proof read your comments – “You got to be kidding me” – now that’s the King’s English.
Yes the system is broken because the State allowed diploma mills to flourish by relaxing academic standards by granting WASC certification to “for profit ‘universities.'” Hence, the school system is replete with under educated, under qualified, and overly in debt escapees from dead end middle management service jobs (like Kiger). Who’s fault was that?…..every Republican Governor (and Democratic legislator) who subscribed to privatizing (for profit) higher education. BTW, when I began my teaching career I was not the exception.
“Who’s fault was that?” – are you even going to make this difficult for me Mr. High and Mighty educated teacher? I can’t wait until you have to use “there” “their” or “they’re” in a sentence.
There are two things to look at in the public school system, cost and performance.
Is the final product worth the price being paid?
Is the school system failing in their performance, and if so why?
The teachers and the school system have a image problem. They and their unions have allowed their system, job, and management practices fail at showing off the value of their product.
The unions and their members better start showing the value of their product and stop the BS crying for more, protesting, and striking, because the many school districts DO NOT have a right to exist.
The state has a responsibility to the parents and the taxpayers to dissolve failing school systems, carving up the coverage areas and adding them to other districts, or even discarding the entire state system and starting over. (all losing their jobs, seniority and pay grades.)
“Deep down inside you are a loser who does not have the wherewithal to compete.”
Sir, you are a monument to our education system. Here’s to the many young minds that have been molded by your wit and charm.
I love how the public unionistas always have the same retort when one of us taxpayers dares to squawk about their great deal: you’re a loser!
The implication though, is unintended: the public employees are the winners and we are the losers. Nice, huh?
he sounds like he deserves the 90K. that is, for a full year of work. teachers don’t work a full year. oh yeah, they put in long hours after school blah blah blah. as if private workers don’t. I would be for good teachers being paid 85K to 125K , depending on years worked, per full year. pro rate the difference. A 401K plan instead of pension, and participate in social security like the rest of us. retire at 65. thanks to the good teachers and abolish the CTA
School districts do have the right to exist. Under the California Constitution any group of people in a community that convince the voter to create a school district, has the right to do so so long as elections are held periodically. Once the school district boundaries are established and a school board is elected, the school district then has the right to tax the citizens who live within the boundaries of the newly established school district.
The State for political reasons shies away from interfering in school district affairs because State elected officials mostly get their political start by getting elected to school boards. School boards, in turn, endorse higher level politicians and these endorsements can swing a vote one way or another.
The teacher unions do not hire teachers. That right to hire and fire is vigorously harbored by the school boards appointed officials. If anyone were bothered to take the time to read through any school district/local union collective bargaining agreement, you would see clearly that administrators can fire bad teachers any time they please as long as they follow the agreed upon guidelines. Tenure exist only for college professors. It is an urban legend that public school teachers are tenured.
Yes teachers do teach 186 days per year. That term is mandated by the state and the details are worked out by free people coming to agreement in the collective bargaining process. The salary schedule is part of the collective bargaining agreement. No one in the negotiating room has a gun held against the head of the other side.
Teachers do participate in 401K plans and 457 plans and social security. But California is one of 13 states that has an offset policy. If a person pays into social security before becoming a teacher, once that person becomes a teacher, that person loses his/her social security. The money paid in is gone.
I realize most of what I have said here is new to you folks. Myths and urban legends are replete within the blog-o-sphere. I would highly recommend that the folks writing and reading here take the time to read through the California Department of Education web site (http://www.cde.ca.gov/index.asp) and also the CDE’s Education Code (http://www.cde.ca.gov/re/lr/). Finally, do yourself a favor and go to your local school district and pick up a copy of the collective bargaining agreement. Then read it.
Thanks Mr. or Mrs. condescending. These “facts” are not new to this crowd but regurgitations of the same public union propaganda that has web site that intelligently puts animal bodies onto the heads of fiscally responsible elected officials.
Alty,
California has 58 counties and 999 SHCOOL DISTRICTS. Certianly siskeyu does’nt need Oakland politics in it’s local schools, but why don’t Anaheim, Buena Park, Fullerton and maybe Cerritos merge. What about Brea, Placentia and Yorba Linda?
This is important because, while strong willed, the school board in Brea is no match for the heavy hitters the CTA brought in on those negotiations.
You underemphisize the politics of local school boards, just look at Cheveron and it’s local reach into district business. UNOCAL friendly Brea has long worked with developers to help parse off it’s land (La Floresta being the latest example).
The fastest way to cut cost is through salary, but the long term answer is by negating the hold the CTA has on districts
You bozos want teachers to show you their pay stubs? Tell me, how much should a teacher be paid…maximum salary? How much? And how much should they be paid to start?
Education is pretty damn important. Imagine how much more salary you could make if you had a degree Travis? How many jobs are you routinely turned down for because you don’t have the diploma?
You worked for Disney Travis? Is Bob Iger worth the $20 million a year Disney pays him? Oh but that’s private business….meanwhile Disneyland costs more and more every year. I don’t hear you bitch about that. Then again, you don’t make even to ever go the do you?
Thanks for the completely irrelevant contribution. I don’t know what it means but thanks anyway for stopping by.
Here’s the deal….not every cop solves every crime…not every doctor cures every illness…..not every fireman prevents every fire…the product of each profession is not perfect…how do I know that is true?…..just look at the quality of thought displayed by the “bozos” on this site….yes, as a long term teacher you bozos are perfect examples of our failures….can’t write…can’t reason…..can’t do math…”F” students one in all…….but I do look forward to the flood of law suits moving in Mr. Kiger’s directions (and whoever may have given him access to the salary data). I think you will be a poor bitter pill the rest of your very weird and angry petty little life. Never ever having accomplished anything but always railing against those of us who made a difference…and I do not feel sorry for you…only pity…..
Teachers have an image problem, and it is their unions fault.
The fat cat union management along with the fat cat district managements threw all under the bus for their own excessive compensation plans.
The best thing that could happen is the voters dissolve the current districts and start fresh.
999 school districts in California? What with that, sounds like the Pakistani / Afghan border region with hundreds of little chiefdoms.
Thanks for avoiding the answer Tony. Perhaps you’d be willing to submit to a drug test in exchange for paystubs
@ Cook……your plan will never work…..the parents in each district like local control…..conservatives will hate your plan because it smacks of big government….the State is committed to protecting each district as presently constituted…..European style centralized education have no serious advocates in California……there are far and away too many “stakeholders” who will never allow your plan to move forward…….aint gonna happen
IN YOUR FACE KIGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fifth Wisconsin University Faculty Votes for Union
by James Parks, May 13, 2011
Despite the ongoing attacks on workers’ rights in the state, the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay (UWGB) faculty today voted 117– 2 for representation by AFT. This is the fifth UW campus to do so since Gov. Scott Walker’s plan to eliminate public employee bargaining was introduced.
Although Walker’s anti-worker bill now is being challenged in court, Republican lawmakers have said they intend to include its anti-collective bargaining provisions in the state budget, which already calls for drastic funding cuts to the University of Wisconsin system.
Aeron Haynie, an associate professor of English and humanities, says the faculty vote ties in to the burgeoning labor movement in Wisconsin. The movement has gained incredible momentum since the announcement of Walker’s anti-union bill in February, she says.
I’m proud to vote for a faculty union at UWGB. As we have seen this past year in Wisconsin, it is vital that working people join together and fight for our rights—our right to make decisions which affect the quality of education here in our state, and our right to decent benefits. Working together, as a union, makes our voices stronger.
University of Wisconsin faculty and academic staff were extended the right to collectively bargain in June 2009. Since then, faculty at six other campuses—UW-Eau Claire, UW-Superior, UW-La Crosse, UW-Stout, UW-River Falls and UW-Stevens Point—have voted in favor of collective bargaining representation. UW-Superior academic staff will vote on union representation next week.
Yes, since Mr. Kilger spent ZERO time lobbying against the formation of a union at the Universty of Wisconsin-Packers, this is a HUGE failure for him. Please ignore the fact that Colleges and Universities have become places so liberal that conservative thought can be censored without repercussion.
@ Geoff Willis………wouldn’t that be simply wonderful……..the truth prevails over ideology…….but then again, you are spouting right wing garbage….”Universities as places of liberalism”…….like the business economics departments jammed packed with Marxist…..Poli-sci departments holding portraits of Chairman Mao……Athletics Department marching to the International……and those artist in the art department, can’t trust them either………BS all BS
Not BS, directly from both anectdotal examples of conservative professor friends censored for conservative thought, current events (UCLA Professor Enstrom fired for challenging findings of the California Air Resources Board), or simply overt stated bias “[I]f the system functions well, it ought to have a liberal bias, or at least appear to. Because if it appears to have a liberal bias, that will serve to bound thought even more effectively.
—Noam Chomsky, “Excerpts from Manufacturing Consent”. and academic studies which show that 87% of professors at “elite” universities consider themselves “liberal.” http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html
there is a surprise here….someone who seems to read……..If you mean “liberal” in the sense that Chomsky uses the term, then I will agree with you. Liberals are Statists who preach and practice identity politics. Identity politics is in turn designed to give the appearance addressing basic human rights issues but in practice divides people into easily managed and manipulated small groups. These small affinity groups are then placed in competition with each for the attention of the State. Liberalism is the science and art of “divide and conquer.” And so yes, professors at Elite Universities who serve the interest of the elite are mostly liberals.
“Liberals are people in the establishment who justify the overreach of the capitalist state. Liberalism stands for all that is unprincipled, thus giving rise to a decadent, Philistine attitude. Liberalism is a corrosive which eats away unity, undermines cohesion, causes apathy and creates dissension. Liberalism stems from petty selfishness, it places personal interests first. Liberalism is a manifestation of opportunism.”
Enstrom got fired because he said air pollution from diesel fuel was not dangerous. When it was discovered he was in the back pocket of the trucking industry in their fight to prevent more regulation his scientific objectivity got called into question (along with his research).
Is Sal Tinajero really worth 13 bucks short of 100K? And then he heads down to Santa Ana City Hall to steal another 30K + and double dip on his taxpayer paid pension and benefits before going over to OC Sanitation to triple dip on the taxpayer dime. Those Angels season tickets don’t come cheap. So much for the rumor of all the extra hours and hard work on behalf of his students.
Tony Espinosa, the former principal at Valley High School and pious member of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, was making more than 150K per year while he was banging support staff at his high school. During his time at Valley he paid both his older brothers who also worked at Valley in violation of School Board policy 140% of each of their salaries in the form of stipends. Two of Espinosa’s closest friends also worked at Valley (the Kramers) and the two of them made more than 250K per year also in the form of stipends added to their base salary. The district knew of Tony’s miscreant behavior and after years of complaints finally demoted him to counselor at Segerstrom where he was eventually fired for texting sexual content to 16 year old girls……Every school principal has his or her groupies who shrewdly cash in off the power of school principals. If you want to fix the problem, go after the administrators. They control the purse strings. And BTW….The City of Santa Ana and SAUSD are the maternal twins of corruption.