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- Tom Green tries to determine:
Which one is really bigger?
Studies undertaken by individuals and organizations that have an agenda of reducing the size of government and the pay and benefits of government employees have been produced that reach the conclusion that government workers are paid more than their private sector counterparts. However, a close review of the methodology of these studies calls their findings into question.
These studies usually compare a workforce average pay to the average pay of every worker in the state or country. Knowledgeable researchers will tell you that comparing averages like this is biased and skews the results. For instance, is the average worker at Boeing making more than the average worker in the United States, and if so does that mean that Boeing workers are overpaid? What about education, knowledge, experience and skills, not to mention job complexity? Is the so-called average job in the private sector the same as the so-called public sector average job? These studies are really apples to oranges comparisons.
There are other studies that find when salary and benefits are compared and the study controls to compare like workforce to like workforce and job to job that public sector employees are not overpaid compared to their counterparts, with the possible exception of jobs classified as unskilled labor. These studies are quickly labeled by the anti-government individuals and organizations as having been produced by “left leaning” and/or “union backed” think tanks in an effort to discredit them.
The only thing certain on this issue seems to be that emotions run high and agendas need to be understood.
Over But Not Out,
Are you implying that the Mayor, council members and city manager of the City of Bell were not overpaid?
When you study the pay of local government workers in Tulare county Ca., and Clark County Nv., and find that the pay scale is dramatically less than the pay scales of the County of Orange and it 30 plus cities, what can be the conclusion?
Where is the justification for the retiring SAUSD superintendent getting 245,000 per year for 5 years work compared the an ex-president of the USA getting only 191,000 for 4 to 8 years work? (Ref: page 8/9 summary report 1482-s. Senate Committee on local government)
And the ex-president must give up all other pensions to get the public pension, whereas these low level civil servants are allowed to pyramid multiple pensions, mostly paid by others and most allowing duplicating time served allowances.
Colusa County supervisor (Chairwoman) makes 34,800 per year, our Orange County supervisor’s make over 200,000 per year with another 100,000 in benefits, and the County (Orange) Manager does all the work. (for another 300K) (Ref: page 7 summary report 1482-s. Senate Committee on local government)
To say that the gardener or parks worker is under paid is no justification to over pay other low level civil servants. And I consider city managers low level as compared to a Governor’s, Senators or Presidents.
“largest at $206,500 in California, though the governor doesn’t accept it, and the smallest at $70,000 in Maine,” IS there any city in Orange County that pays its city manager less that the governors pay of 206,500?
Cook, I think you and I would agree that the escapades of the Bell City Manager are as criminal as private sector white collar crime, like those who rip others off by running sham investment schemes, or Enron, and should be prosecuted to the max. However, horrible examples do not mean the private sector is entirely corrupt, nor does it mean that the entire public sector is either. You mention Tulare County and Colusa County, California. Both are much different demographics, a different labor market, a different economy, and different population. Colusa, per the 2,000 census, had only 21,000 people in it and two towns, that’s it. Would you not expect that the calibre of person needed to run that county would be less knowledgeable, less skilled and under a heck of a lot of less stress than someone trying to run a county of 3 million and 30 + cities? Again, comparing apples to oranges does not work. Are the OC elected Supervisors overpaid? You bet they are, in my opinion. So from your examples we should conclude somehting about public sector salaries? I think not. I prefer comprehensive studies that don’t simply focus on the abuses. The point of the post is that there are studies done with the purpose of proving an agenda, and there are some done without that intent in mind. When reading them it is wise to determine who did the study and/or who paid for them and not just accept the findings even though they may enforce your bias.
It’s always interesting to see how the massive pay and bonuses given to corporate executives that bleed companies and kill jobs is off the radar when we hear the complaints about the oh so grossly overpaid public workers, who for the vast majority, actually do something productive.
Corporate executives are being arrested and jailed for illegal activities, it is big news in the papers.
Is it not time to hold the local government executives to the same standard?
“public workers, who for the vast majority,” (Rapscallion)
Are you using the vast majority of public workers as human shields to deflect the activities of the few at the top?
The big players in the rackets that led up to the collapse of Lehman Brothers have been unscathed in the process. You’re confusing Madoff with some idea that there was some punishment. There wasn’t. They have their multi millions and we’re left holding the bag.
There will always be some corruption, but the attempt to blame public workers in general as corrupt is, well, utter crap and serves an agenda.
Yes lets look at the top and leave them alone or raise their pay. that is exactly what we have been doing both in the private sector and Government.
But lets beat up the real workers by destroying unions and privatizing their jobs. So that the corporate leader can get another pay raise and bonus for expanding the business.
This great Republican backed policy nearly destroyed the country once back in the last twenties and early thirties.
Read your history folks and not make the same mistake again.
Yes, lets look at the top and leave them alone or raise their pay. That is exactly what we have been doing both in the private sector and Government.
MQ says:
It’s non of our business what public sector people make, they are the innovators, creators etc…. Public sector jobs don’t create anything!
“But lets beat up the real workers by destroying unions and privatizing their jobs. So that the corporate leader can get another pay raise and bonus for expanding the business.”
MQ says:
Yes, lets get rid of unions that do nothing but act like a mafia and rob from the tax payer. Unions had their place and now have become nothing but a burden on the tax payer. I say privatize everything…Schools, police, firefighters and I bet you get better work, less pay and no union mob boss.
“This great Republican backed policy nearly destroyed the country once back in the last twenties and early thirties.”
MQ says:
In ever state in the country that has a Conservative Republican governor the state is either fiscally sound or on their way to be coming fiscally sound. Virginia went from a – to a + in only a matter of months under a republican governor….That is a fact! And don’t add stupid Arnold in that group, he was never a Republican only a RINO!
MQ. Just for clarrification. Unlike Costa Mesa we “outsource” our police services function to the OCSD.
Is that what you refer to as “privatizing.?”
They are still members of AOCDS, the Deputy Sheriff Union, formerly led by Wayne J. Quint, Jr.
True Larry, but Costa Mesa is just the begining here. Wisconsin, Ohio and others are doing exactly that busting Unions and privatizing the jobs if possible.
Gosh, I wonder why? Costa Mesa has got the right idea, get rid of the union mob hold and go with all out privatizing. Could you image if the schools where privatized and the teachers no longer were treated like the kings and queens they obviously are not, instead either did their job, if not bye, bye!
Yes, it’s on the move though out the country, unions losing out to common sense approach to running a state, city, country!
Yeah, let’s privatize everything. Business always make the right decisions.
If ONLY we had privatized Social Security when Bush wanted to. Darn it. Did we miss out or what? That way, when the crash hit, everyone who had moved their SS money into the stock market…oh wait a second…
They try to make the right decisions so they can make a profit right! Government does not need to improve or make changes to improve because government or its entities don’t need to make a profit, government exists only to spend!!! Obviously you don’t own a business or have ever run one!!!!
Like most people will brains, stock market fluctuates and if you ride the wave of lows, you will end up on the high! Don’t expect Social security to help your old butt out in the future, I hope you invested and were wise with your money…I am not expecting SS…I have invest well and often for my retirement!
Actually, I do own my own business. I know, I know…a business owner that isn’t AUTOMATICALLY pro-business on every issue…I know it’s difficult for you to wrap your one-track brain around that.
But yeah, how awful that the government spent money to rescue the auto industry. Let me bottom line it for you…the government, and the government alone, was the ONLY entity with the means to rescue our economy and the captains of finance from their own excesses. Oh yes, they run their businesses so well!
And try telling the people who were 60+ when the crash hit about your rosy little private investment scenario. Try telling THEM they would have been better off having their SS money in the private investment market.
Union busting and worker punishment is off the mark.
It is upper management and elected officials and appointment autocrats who think ripping off their constituents is their right.
They want to be like those directors, upper management CEO, COO, CFO and investment banker scum who have been ripping off their stock holders for so many years.
Know, I know, You are liberal and most likley you either have lots of money in the bank.. thanks to daddy/hubby or you make your money off the government….Of course not all businesses are making their money off the private sector, whats your business a Non-profit?…then of course I understand your mind set!
Let me let you in on a secret, we lost money on the Auto deal…And with your infinite wisdom, its ok to bail out some, but not others…Weren’t your knickers tight up your bum when the smart government gave millions to WallStreet???? If the Auto companies here in the US had the corrupt and greedy union off their backs, Auto companies would not need to shut down plants all over this country…But of Course you are a liberal and love wind turbines that kill over a million birds a year…but they are good for the environment!!!
I will tell the people who are 60 that sorry the government thought it was a must for every tom, dick and illegal immigrant to have a home…Social justice and when they could not pay then well the shit hit the fan…blame the stupid goverment! And at my age, i am planning on my retirement minus SS…Are you from the Valley by the way? OMG!!!!